Disapproved VCs

[Barrett]

Is there a source of info on the number of VC recommendations disapproved in either WW? Reasons for disapproval other than lack of witnesses (BB excepted of course!) I'm curious as to the administrative process--at what level disapproval typically occurs.
By way of comparison, the Medal of Honor in some cases has been approved, disapproved, and the latter over-ruled sometimes decades (or a century) later. Very political.

I know of no listing of 'disapproved VCs', though somewhere amongst my notes I have noted quite a number of people who had their recommendations 'downgraded' to a lesser award, even to nothing at all, for a variety of reasons. *One of the most interesting 'witness' cases was that of the posthumous award during WWII to Flying Officer Lloyd Trigg, a New Zealander which was made on the statements of the survivors of the German U-boat which he sank even as his aircraft was shot down (with no survivors) by the U-boat's gunners.

I recommend M.J. Crook's 'Evolution of the Victoria Cross' as a good starting point for answering your question.
He has chapters on 'Selection' and 'The Mechanics of Award and Issue' covering the VC from the Crimea to Vietnam. *ISBN is 0 85936 041 5 * *My copy is dated 1975 and I do not know if it is still available, but if you can find a copy it is well worth having. (Mine is most definitely not for sale!)

Hope this helps somewhat
Regards
Liz Milne

Barrett,
I have jotted down the names of Canadians who have been recommended for the VC but not received it for WW2 and Korea, but have not looked into WW1. Even my WW2 list is partial - I have never really dug into the topic.
However, the names I have are interesting. They include four airmen:
F/O H.E.Jones (233 Sqn) 1944 KIA - received MID
F/O W.E.McLean (514 Sqn) 1945 KIA - received no award
F/L P.T.Sarjent (422 Sqn) 1943 KIA - received MID
F/O H.Freeman (198 Sqn) 1944 KIA - received MID
Amongst the army types were the following;
Sgt.Y.Piuze,MM (Royal 22nd Regt.) Italy 1944 KIA - MID
Pte.S.J.Cousins (PPCLI) Sicily 1943 KIA - MID
Sgt.C.K.Crockett (Calgary Highlanders) NWE 1944 - DCM
Maj.D.M.Rogers (Queens Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada) NWE 1944 - DSO
Maj.J.W.Powell,MC (1st Hussars) NWE 1944 - DSO
Capt.R.G.Marsh (Can Loan attd. 6/Royal Welch Fusiliers) NWE 1944 KIA - MID
From Korea L/Cpl.E.W.Poole (RCAMC attd. 2 RCR) 1951 - DCM

As can be seen, those who were not killed earned other high awards (DSO or DCM); those killed in action got a mention in dispatches, except for McLean. Hard to believe!
Note that my records are very fragmentary.

Hi Terry
While it may be hard to believe that those KIA only got an MID it was at the time the only option if the recommendation for a VC was not approved. *It was only some time in the 1970s that awards other than the VC (and the GC) were made available posthumously. *Even then the DSO wasn't, something about not being able to become a companion of an order unless one was alive. *This may have now been changed, but I'd have to dig a bit to find out. *The actual criteria for the award of the DSO has been changed in recent years to reflect qualities of leadership rather than bravery in action. The latter is now rewarded by the Conspicuous Service Cross (I think I have the name correct) on the same 'level' of award.

Liz Milne

[Michael]

Liz,

There was an extensive overhaul of the British honours system some years back. Most of the emphasis went to eliminating the distinction between awards for officers (DSO, MC, DSC, DFC, AFC) and enlisted men (DCM, MM, DSM, DFM, AFM).

Michael,
Thanks for that. *I followed the overhaul pretty closely when it was happening. *It was in my back issues of the magazine Medal News that I was intending to 'dig'. *It carried extensive reports on the pros and cons of the changes as well as the changes that were eventually made. *

Liz

[Michael]

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-offic...Writtens-2.html

Yikes! Has it really been eight years?

Thanks for the link, Michael and I second your 'Yikes'! *I had forgotten that it was quite that long ago. Now I know in which volume of back issues to start my digging!

Liz

From my previous writings:


On the night of 21/22 June 1943 a Halifax of No.408 Squadron went missing. Early in 1944, Pilot Officer G.F. Pridham, the bomb aimer, was repatriated from a POW camp. He reported that on his last mission his aircraft had been hit by flak which killed two crewmen outright and mortally wounded a third. Pridham himself was gravely injured; one leg almost torn off. With fire sweeping the cockpit, fanned by winds howling through the shattered perspex, Sergeant Clifford C. Reichert (the pilot), stayed at the controls, keeping the bomber on a level keel to allow survivors, including Pridham, to bale out. In so doing he missed his own chance to escape; the Halifax exploded. Pridham subsequently wrote to Reichert's family, describing his pilot as "the bravest man I ever knew." On the basis of this evidence, RCAF authorities recommended some recognition for Reichert (who had been posthumously commissioned); on January 1st, 1945 it was announced that he had been Mentioned in Despatches.

Documents found in the Public Records Office in London include a recommendation from No.422 Squadron that Flight Lieutenant Paul Trueman Sargent be awarded the Victoria Cross. The facts behind this were stated clearly. In Ovtober 1943, piloting a Sunderland flying boat, he attacked an enemy submarine in the North Atlantic in the face of withering anti-aircraft fire. Only three of his depth charges dropped; Sargent turned and made another run. By now the flak was brutal; two crewmen were killed; the navigator suffered wounds that proved fatal; controls were damaged and the aircraft was almost unmanageable. Sargent held to his course, dropped two depth charges which damaged (but did not sink) his quarry, then headed for a convoy. He forced-landed in heavy seas, and though the Sunderland sank quickly, the rest of Sargent's crew escaped and were rescued; Sargent went down with the aircraft. He had previously completed 34 sorties, involving 457 hours flying and, in the words of the recommendation, "had invariably displayed great courage, skill and devotion to duty".

This recommendation was supported as far as Coastal Command Headquarters. Nevertheless, Flight Lieutenant Sargent was not awarded a Victoria Cross; instead he was Mentioned in Despatches.

On January 10th, 1944, Wing Commander A.N. Martin, Commanding Officer of No.424 Squadron, submitted a recommendation that Sergeant Vernon Frederick McHarg be awarded a Victoria Cross. Martin was relying on evidence supplied by crewmen then held prisoner by the enemy. Nevertheless, he was able to write a stirring account. Piloting a Wellington aircraft on the night of 26/27 January 1943, McHarg had remained at the controls of his burning aircraft, giving up precious seconds as his crew baled out of the doomed bomber, which crashed in flames before he could escape. The recommendation concluded by declaring, "Sergeant McHarg's deliberate sacrifice of his own life to save those of his crew is an outstanding act of bravery and devotion."

To this the Station Commander added his own comments:
"Sergeant McHarg deliberately and with full knowledge of the consequences of his act gave his life to enable other members of his crew to live. No greater contribution could be made to the Empire or the Service than that exhibited in this fearless example of self-sacrifice."

Some of his crew, now prisoners of war, have most justly said, "We can surely be proud of him". It is earnestly considered that this most valorous deed should be recognized by the award of the highest order of gallantry and in consequence strongly recommend the posthumous award of the Victoria Cross.


Notwithstanding the recommendation, backed by the Station Commander's support, Sergeant McHarg was granted no posthumous recognition whatsoever.

It should be noted that it was service policy that people should not be told they had been recommended for a decoration until the award had been finally approved at the highest levels; otherwise, it might be embarassing for all concerned if a "gong" was not approved. This extended even to the families of deceased personnel; they were not to be told that their loved one had been recommended for a Victoria Cross unless that honour was formally appoved and gazetted. Thus, although Pilot Officer Pridham could write to the family of Sergeant Reichert, describing the latter as "the bravest man I ever knew", neither he nor Reichert's parents would ever be aware of the VC recommendation. At least one instance is known of a failed VC nomination (involving a Canadian soldier killed in Sicily) being communicated to next-of-kin, and the incident caused a stir in official circles.