mvr's dv. #2

i have a poster, (posted on another thread) by alan durkota and terry waldron, showing all of mvr's planes. in it, the color schemes for dv. 1033/17 and dv. 4693/17 are the same. the description says that he was shot down and wounded in 1033/17. in peter kilduff's book: beyond the legend.., there is a photo showing the downed aircraft. however, it says it was 4693/17 that was shot down. also, there is a dark (black?) band dividing the natural finish and the red tail section.
i'm building a model of each plane he flew. so, i have two questions.

1. which is the correct serial number for this paint scheme?

2. is the band black?

leon

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Leon:
Neither is correct. He was wounded and shot down on 25 July 1917 while flying Alb. D.V 1177/17. I refer you to "Von Richthofen and the Flying Circus," page 67. There is no evidence that he flew Alb. D.1033/17, at least he did not gain any victories while flying this machine.
Alb. D.4693/17 was not ordered until July 1917. He received Alb. D.V 4693/17 after the Fokker Triplanes were grounded on 31 October 1917 He scored his 62cd and 63 rd victories while flying Alb. D.V 4693/17. He flew this machine from about 5 November to 12 December 1917. For a complete listing of his aircraft and cooresponding victories I refer you to: "Over THe Front", Vol.3 No.3 1988.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

i would like to refer you to, not only peter kilduff's book, but also to 'under the guns of the red baron', which confirms the date of the sixth. (p.151)
it's not the date that concerns me, though. i need to know the paint scheme of dv. 4693/17. the photo clearly shows a natural wood finish, with a red tail section and a band dividing the two. is the band black?

leon

[Rick]

Leon's got you there, Dan. The date of MvR's WIA was indeed 6Jul17, but you are correct that he was in Alb. D.V 1177/17 at the time!!

I don't do colors and markings, only people and units!!

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Rick:
It's funny, I started to use the 6 July 1917, but something else I had writen in the log was he was shot down on the 25th. Come to think of it I think of it, I believe he returned to duty on the 25th. In any event it was Alb. D.V 1177/17. Sorry about the mistake Leon.
Blue skies,
Dan

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Leon:
This is Alb. D.V4693/17. I don't think it is black, note the leading edge of the stabilizer is in the area of the band and it matches the tonal value precisely. I refer you to "The Illustrated Red Baron", page 70 bottom photo and the photo on page 74. These photos were taken in November-December 1917. There is a 3/4 right rear view photo of Alb.D.V 4693/17 taken at the same time as on page 74 that show the upper surfaces of the upper and lower wings completely over painted red including the crosses.
Rittm. Manfred Frhr, von richthofen was shot down flying Alb.D.V1177/17 which was entirely overpainted, including all crosses, red. A 3/4 left rear view of the Alb.D.V 1177/17 appears on pages 92 and93 of "The Illustrated Red Baron". Alb. D.V1177/17 was entirely overpainted red including crosses. Peter Kilduff has his dates and Alb.D.Vs mixed up.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

dan,

on closer inspection of the color drawing of D.v 4693/17, it looks like the band is a slightly darker red. if the tail was a 'wash-over' of a painted area, (white?) and the red paint extended onto natural wood area, would this create a darker 'band' appearence?

leon

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Leon:
I looked up the 3/4 right rear view of Alb. D.V4693/17, the band on the fuselage does appear quite darker than the adjacent red rudder and fuselage. On second thought, it could be black. I am glad you brought it to my attention. This shows, you can teach an old dog tricks! :P
Blue Skies,
Dan-San 8)

i doubt i could teach you anything about ww1 aviation. so, don't make the mistake of assuming i could. *

i have another question for you. you said that 4693/17 had a red upper wing. does this include a red 'wash' over the crosses?

leon

leon

look up three threads, idiot. dan said the crosses were painted over, didn't he? * :-[


me