Walther PPK/S .380

21 December 2001, 03:46 PM

Quote:

For those who are not comfortable carrying Condition One for what ever reason, I don't know what to tell you.

That's an easy one. If you aren't comfortable carrying in Condition One, don't carry a 1911. Period.

There are plenty of DAO or DA/SA handguns out there that are almost as capable as a 1911. Notice I said almost as capable!

Barrett · 21 December 2001, 04:23 PM

Despite the army policy, carrying a 1911 with the hammer on the safety notch is NOT a good idea. John M Browning (blessings be upon him) knew a damn sight more about his pistola than the govt. ever did: it was DESIGNED to be carried cocked & locked, though evidently most units did not authorize it. An MP friend said they were required to carry Condition3 (hammer down on an empty chamber.)
Reportedly some Mexican folks lived by the Code of the Hammer, depending on their temperament: hammer down, lassaiz faire; safety notch, willing to tangle if provoked; full cock: looking for trouble!
Oh well...

Kirby · 21 December 2001, 05:55 PM

Quote:

* it was DESIGNED to be carried cocked & locked

I remember Elmer Keith and Colonel Townsend Whelan using almost those exact same words.

Carrying one in condition one is OK for someone really familiar with the weapon. It is a personal choice and I just wouldn't feel easy with it. Up until now, I have relied on an S&W Model 59 with Norma HP ammo. The Colt Government Model is a far superior weapon. Actually, IMHO, my Walther PPK/S is superior to the S&W in many ways. I DO plan on getting very cozy with the 1911 in the future.

VBR
Kirby

Billy_Bishop · 21 December 2001, 08:43 PM

During my years of carrying a firearm as both LEO and PI, I have carried a variety of firearms. *Ranging from Ruger Police Service Six in .357 magnum through different model .45 and 9mm autos. *When I carried the Colt Gov't .45 ACP, I ALWAYS carried it cocked, locked and loaded. *Not once did it go off when I didn't want it to.

Now, my CCW weapon of choice is a Taurus PT-92AFS 9mm. *Not a small weapon. *But it can be hidden even in the Summer time with the right equipment.

Besides, I like the look on some people's faces when they realize I'm armed. *

I had a guy come up to me once in a Denny's and say "I love Ted Kennedy." *And I asked him, "Yeah? So you like homicidal drunk drivers?" *He didn't know what to say, and just left.

VBR,

Al Lowe

stephen · 22 December 2001, 05:40 AM

I realize that deliberately flaunting a weapon is irresponsible and I don't condone it, so let's not bother with the discussion. That said, it is AMAZING how you are treated differently when you carry openly. The word "sir" is used considerably more often. Respect comes in far greater quantities and more frequently. Absolutely night and day, especially with undesirable types and troublemakers. Have you ever carried open and had a beggar solicit you? Just amazing.

The state of IN does not issue a "concealed" carry permit; only a permit to carry. How is up to you. I'm concealed about 60% of the time, but there are occasions (like going downtown at night for a walk around the Circle or the mall, or in neighborhoods that you try to avoid) when carrying open is wise and the best thing for all concerned parties.

And it has an incalculable effect on the victim selection process.

mike_baram · 22 December 2001, 08:33 AM

While I've carried my Kimber on occasion, I guess I'm more comfortable with it uncocked. I figure that it takes a second to cock it, and if someone has the drop on me and is willing to pull the trigger, I'm not that fast that I could draw and release the safety before his finger twitches, so I guess it's not really that big an issue.
Usually I carry the S&W .357 (2" barrel), and, all things considered, I'm just as fast with that as I am with the Kimber, which means that anyone who comes up against me should be very old and very dumb.

Barrett · 22 December 2001, 05:37 PM

One of my former IPSC buds had been an army MP, and his company was required to carry 1911s in condition 3 so they practiced that way. Bill witnessed "The fastest draw you ever saw" from a GI flap holster, racking the slide during the stroke, to beat the drop on a perpetrator and fill him with 45 calibers of lead. The decedent was a drunk/stoned soldier with an M16. Evidently he'd stashed some ammo after a range session and went looking for his platoon sergeant.

Billy_Bishop · 22 December 2001, 10:52 PM

Quote:

I realize that deliberately flaunting a weapon is irresponsible and I don't condone it, so let's not bother with the discussion.

Ok, but you did bring it up.

As a rule, I do not flaunt my weapon. *It's just that I don't go to extra pains to hide it. *I make NORMAL attempts to keep it concealed, primarily so that it does not cause undue concern. *But as I've noticed others who do not bend over backwards to hide their licensed firearm, I too have adopted the same attitude.

And yes, it does engender a rather strange respect from many people. *And it has caused some rather ratty looking people to leave establishments I was frequenting rather than stay and continue their harrasing behavior.

But I really get a kick out pissing off the anti-CCW types!

stephen · 23 December 2001, 04:56 PM

I'm not a flaunter, but many times I just don't bother trying to hide it. I do not consider myself responsible for the irrational and hysterical overreactions of the ignorant.

There are many times when it is beneficial to conceal, and also many times when the only sensible thing to do is carry open. The idea being the prevention of a dangerous situation before it can even begin.

23 December 2001, 05:10 PM

IMHO, concealed carry weapon means just that. No one knows I am carrying a weapon, and that's the way I want it.