The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Sign the Guestbook
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
The Aerodrome News
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History
The Aerodrome Forum

Learn how to remove ads

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 2001


2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only)


Welcome to The Aerodrome Forum, an online community where you can discuss WWI aviation with thousands of other members from around the world. To gain full access to the Forum you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Post messages and search the Forum

  • Privately communicate with other members

  • Participate in live chat sessions other members

  • View images by talented aviation artists in our Gallery

  • Buy, sell or trade items in our Classified Ads
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 December 2001, 09:47 AM #1 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,613
 
Has there ever been an authoritative English volume on the Freikorps c. 1918-21 or thereabouts? I note that Osprey recently released Jurado's volume in the Men At Arms (or maybe Elite) series and I'll probably order it but just wonder what else might be out there. Nothing else turns up on the net.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
Barrett is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old 22 December 2001, 11:02 PM #2 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Billy_Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Lansing, MI USA
Posts: 2,560
 
FYI, I've been looking too, but have yet to find anything.

VBR,

Al
__________________
Al Lowe
The Billy Bishop Zone
The posession of arms is the distinction between a Freeman and a slave.
- MP Andrew Fletcher, 1698
Billy_Bishop is offline  
Old 23 December 2001, 05:26 AM #3 (permalink)
leo
Forum Ace
 
leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,857
 
I have a book in my library. "Hitler's Heralds,The story of the Freikorps 1918-1923",Nigel H Jones, Dorset Press , NYC, 1992 ISBN 0-88029-963-0. Jones also wrote two books about WWI, "The War Walk: A Journey Along The Western Front" and "Messines:
The Forgotten Victory.
__________________
A.E.I.O.U.
leo is offline  
Old 23 December 2001, 12:19 PM #4 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,613
 
Thanks so much, Leo. Among other things, I'm interested in looking up more of Berthold's activities; I assume he'd be mentioned.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
Barrett is offline  
Old 24 December 2001, 04:28 AM #5 (permalink)
leo
Forum Ace
 
leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,857
 
Yes, he is mentioned as Commander of the Eiserne Schar, the most powerful of ther Freikorps and of his luke warm support of the Kapp Putsch.

He decided to march with the Putch in Berlin via Hamburg. His way was hindered by striking railwaymen. They reached Harburg and decided to stay the night in a school.

The circumstances of his death in Harburg are also covered. He was besieged by Reds in a school. After a bitter fight,and using up all his ammo. he was forced to surrender, he was strangled with his Pour le Merite medal ribbon, decapitated, his body stomped into Jelly, and left in a gutter..
__________________
A.E.I.O.U.
leo is offline  
Old 25 December 2001, 10:32 AM #6 (permalink)
leo
Forum Ace
 
leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,857
 
I scoured the book to see if I could find any more about Berthold. The only other thing I could find was he controlled probably the most powerful Freikorps, Eiserne Schar. It alos mentions that during the war he had one arm nearly shot off, but insisted on flying having his batman remove bone splinters do he could fly. His Schar fought in the Baltic Campaign. He had been informed about the Putsch in January, but was not kept abreast of later developments. As a reesult, he did not immediately take part.

There does not seem to be anything else.
__________________
A.E.I.O.U.
leo is offline  
Old 25 December 2001, 10:40 AM #7 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,613
 
In 1999 I printed out a newspaper item (unspecified publication) cited by Hannes regarding Berthold's death. It stated that "storm troopers and militia" detained his group but implied that communists then seized the captives, who had run out of ammo. Total casualties were 19 killed and 50-ish seriously wounded including Berthold and 3 other "Baltikum troops" dead. The article concluded that after surviving the war and severe wounds he was "shot by his own compatriots."
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
Barrett is offline  
Old 26 December 2001, 01:06 PM #8 (permalink)
leo
Forum Ace
 
leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,857
 
Jones says he was surrounded by a huge crowd of men, women and children and that the fire fight was the fault of one Ernst von Salomon who opened up with an mg on the crowd after Berthold had tried to negotiate with them.
Whether you article is correct and Jones incorrect, I don't know.
__________________
A.E.I.O.U.
leo is offline  
Old 30 December 2001, 01:17 PM #9 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,613
 
Speaking of Osprey, the newest release I know of is "B-29 Hunters of the JAAF" by Koji Takaki and Henry Sakaida. An esoteric subject fershure but a fascinating treatment that's unlikely to be topped.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
Barrett is offline  
Old 30 December 2001, 11:59 PM #10 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
rammjaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,093
 
Barrett,

one of the German main sources about Freikorps was the book "Das Buch vom deutschen Freikorpskämpfer" published by Ernst Salomon. Maybe anybody translated this book or some reports of Freikorps-men in the book into English?
This book and others mentioned also the lynching of Berthold.
Traditional German sources for Bertholds life are Ludwig F. Gengler: "Rudolf Berthold ..." *and Thor Goote: "Kamerad Berthold - der unvergleichliche Franke" (Tatsachenroman = a novel based on facts). The most other sources use these sources and try to make Berthold into a fore-runner of the Nationalsocialist idea. I own all three mentioned books meanwhile. And ... IMHO he was really an early, possibly very idealistic kind of Nazi. He had a self-distructive kind of behaviour bordering to hysteric behaviour. As well he was ignoring the well-meaning hints of his comrades and another source commented his death in a critical way and was saying this kind of always soloing in his decisions was dooming him.

I tried repeatedly to contact the local Museum in Hamburg (the place of B.s death, Harburg, is today part of Hamburg) but did never any reply. There seems to be no public interest int he clarification of the circumstances of his death.
__________________
Max Immelmann: "Für mich als Sachsen ist das Kommandeurkreuz ein höherer Orden als der "Pour le Mérite "."

My homepage:
http://www.flugplatzgeschichte-grossenhain.de.tl/
rammjaeger is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Tags
freikorps



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Freikorps aviation markings... John Masters Camouflage and Markings 4 14 January 2006 08:05 PM
Freikorps aviation Marcus Wendel Other WWI Aviation 5 13 June 2005 10:24 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Copyright ©1997 - 2009 The Aerodrome