clock code and...

[totoroman]

I know that the British used a clock-code to direct artillery fire. my questions sort of go as follows:

had the clock code system been in use before aerial observation was employed during WWI-- my suspicion would be that it was.

I only read about the British using this system, but was it used by other nationalities-- what about the French, Germans, and the United States (yes, there were others, but these were the major players)

I am unaware of any prior use of the clock code as utilized by the RFC/RAF. It's hard to imagine any circumstances that would have encouraged or demanded someone come up with it before the development of a light-weight wireless set made it necessary.

I'm sure that the other forces had similar systems. I've never read anything, though, about what those systems might be. (My guess is that the Germans did most of their artillery spotting from balloons, in which case they'd use the standard references used by artillery units--their use of telephones freed them from the need for the cryptic clock references.)

[Lufbery]

I don't know if these will help or not:







I'm not sure what the source is on these scans, but I know that Droops posted them a while ago, so maybe he'll remember.

Regards,

-Drew

[totoroman]

actually, I think I've seen that book at Borders a couple of times-- there were some interesting things there-- but it for the price that they were asking (about $25 or so) I felt like I would feel better about paying twice as much for one of the Grub Street books--which I will eventually do--sometime after my annual income triples!

thanks for the information-- such being the case, I would venture that reading some good books about the history and practices of field artillery would probably clear up some of the other stuff.

[stephen]

One of the best books I've ever read on the topic of British artillery spotting was "EYE IN THE SKY, 1918" by Philip Brereton Townsend. It's a small book but very worthwhile. Phil kept a good diary during his tenure with RAF 12 (RE 8s') from August '18 to the end. He was a nice guy and very deliberate in his work... and very much a perfectionist. Unfortunately, he was very suspicious and always felt that every American was a thief *> , but otherwise a great fellow. His book is incredibly hard to find but an invaluable piece of information.

He starts with a chapter that runs down the basics of artillery spotting, air to ground communication signals and correction procedures, then goes on to detail his entire WWI experience on a day by day basis.

If you're interested in British artillery spotting, get this little book. Its a great find. More info if you need it.

[Lufbery]

One of the best books I've ever read on the topic of British artillery spotting was "EYE IN THE SKY, 1918" by Philip Brereton Townsend. It's a small book but very worthwhile. Phil kept a good diary during his tenure with RAF 12 (RE 8s') from August '18 to the end.

Ack! RE 8s! Things that I've read indicate that they were awful planes. Does the author make any comments about his plane? If so, were they favorable?

He was a nice guy and very deliberate in his work... and very much a perfectionist. Unfortunately, he was very suspicious and always felt that every American was a thief > , but otherwise a great fellow. His book is incredibly hard to find but an invaluable piece of information.

You mean we're not all thieves?

He starts with a chapter that runs down the basics of artillery spotting, air to ground communication signals and correction procedures, then goes on to detail his entire WWI experience on a day by day basis.

If you're interested in British artillery spotting, get this little book. Its a great find. More info if you need it.

Yeah, actually, more info would be great -- especially concerning where to find the book. Thanks for the recommendation.

Regards,

-Drew

[stephen]

He says in his book (and told me off the record) that the RE 8 was a fine plane FOR THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH IT WAS BUILT.

(RE 8 bashers arise). Though difficult to taxi with poor visibility on the ground, the RE offered a good "office" in which crews could get their aerial duties performed. It had an outstanding range and flight duration and was fairly reliable. I've had several RE pilots tell me that they never understood the constant maligning of the plane that took place after the war. Certainly, better two seaters were developed later in the war, but for a 1916 design the RE got the job done quite well and still did so effectively two years later.

I'm out for Christmas shopping in a moment, but will try to post the publisher's info when I get back. Hope that helps.

Perhaps it's unnecessarily picky, but I thought that "Quirk" was the nickname of the BE-2, and not a general nickname for arty obs machines. I very much doubt that anyone would have called an RE-8 a "quirk". An 'Arry, perhaps.

As for the Harry itself, I've always suspected that the bad press it's got is in large part due to the fact that a better machine was actually available to the RFC when (or very shortly after) the RE-8 was adopted but the decision was made to stick with the RE-8. Having said this, I have to admit that I don't know whether there were engine supply problems that prevented wider adoption of the A-W FK-8.

[Vigilant]

As to Philip Townsend's comment on the RE8, please see the quote to left!

Most artillery shooting before WWI was done 'over open sights' (ie the gunners could see the target they were engaging). On the occassions when that wasn't the case and 'indirect fire' was called for, a Forward Observation Officer ('FOO') would communicate the fall of shot back to the battery via a telephone link. Often the FOO was the battery commander because only he could order the guns to make adjustments.

From the books I've read, it appears that there was no code used for reporting fall of shot. The FOO just said 'long' or 'short' or 'left' and 'right'. If he wanted to refer to a map location he apparently had to say 'under the A in ARTOIS' or something similar because grid squares only became common during the war.

Once corrections had to be reported via morse code from an aircraft conciceness obviously became a virtue!

Vig.