German Reconnaissance before Cambrai

[Darryl]

Vigilant,

did you get the Email?

regards

Darryl

[Graeme]

The information in the Communiques is a bit subjective and the compiler's view of little activity didn't necessarily that nothing gotoff the ground.

Some flying was certainly done on 20 November and I have details of three victories - a two-seater shot down in flames over Passchendaele by Tyrell, Claydon and Cuffe of No 32 Sqn, an Albatros scout shot down south of Pervyse by Owen Redgate 9 Sqn RNAS and another machine brought down by Willy Fry, No 23 Sqn, also over Passchendaele.

There was a single RFC victory on 21 November, 8 on 22 November, 14 on 23 November, 1 on 24 November, nothing on the 25th and 8 on the 26th.

By comparison with other, more active days, these were quiet times in the air.

Graeme

[Soderbaum]

Hi Vigilant

There exist at least one German book about the Cambrai offensive...but I dont have the name of it at hand...this book also include notes on German air actvities before and under the offensive...!
So you can probably find a good view how the Germans describe the situation..

Further the German Nachrichtenblatt(NB) stated that on 20 November that 7 e/a were shot down and 6 of these within German lines. This includes 3 forced landings.
Probably some reconfirmations should be added because of the high amount of British losses..?

For 20 Nov The German also reported the loss of 1 a/c in combat + 1 a/c chrashed and 1 Ballon. Further were 2 pilots wounded...NB

In the Cambrai sector Jasta 5 and 30 among the 1-s units seems to have made patrols..

VBR
Gunnar

[Soderbaum]

Oh

Jasta 30 should be Jasta 12...Jasta 30 were probably within 6 German Army this Day...

VBR
Gunnar

[Vigilant]

Darryl, I haven't checked my email for weeks but I will do so on Monday when I have a fast enough connection to get into hotmail. Damn BT dial-up connections!

Stephen, Most interesting ramblings thank you.

It does look like the weather was number one culprit - rather than any lapse of German effeciency Thanks for the replies.

Vigilant

[Vin]

Looks like the combination of low clouds and mist, short light hours for visual observation and movement at night/concealment during daylight would account for the Germans not being able to observe the build up. On the other hand, whilst the weather was bad, there was sufficient aerial activity by the RFC to justify the comment that the Third Army HQ knew about the build up but did nothing about it.

There were 473 tanks available for the exercise before 20 November. 381 took off. By the end of the day 179 were out of action through mechanical troubles or getting stuck in trenches. There were no reserves. By 26 November, all had been withdrawn.

Good question, Vigilant.


Vin

[Graeme]

There's a good account of events in S F Wise's "Canadian Airmen In The First World War", pages 441 - 444. This confirms that 380 tanks were ready at 06:10 on 20 November and that between 09:00 and noon virtually no flying was possible because of the weather. By nightfall the 3rd Army had advanced 3-4 miles along a six-mile front; although losses were light, a large number of tanks had been immobilised.

The incident with the German fighters would seem to be when Camels of 3 Sqn were detailed to bomb Carnieres aerodrome but got lost in the fog. Wise says that one Camel was shot down and three others crashed into trees on the way home.

The Camel shot down was presumably the one claimed by Josef Mai of Jasta 5 (2nd Lt G W Hall KIA); other 3 Sqn casualties were 2nd Lt W C V Higginson KIA, 2nd Lt M W B Stead POW, 2nd Lt H P Ledger KIA and 2nd Lt T J Kent POW.

On 21 November, 3 Brigade recorded 9 successful reconnaissances and four contact patrols without noting any enemy air activity. The limit of the British advance had been reached and German reinforcements began to reach Bourlon Ridge.

Things didn't improve and over the next few days Bourlon and Fontaine-Notre-Dame were captured only to be lost again when the Germans counter-attacked.

On 26 November the squadrons of 1 Brigade, which had been operating around Cambrai, returned to their normal sphere of operations.

Four days later the Germans mounted a major assault between Masnieres and Vendhuille but this petered to a halt during 2/3 December.

It seems that the bad weather prevented the Germans from observing the build up and bogged down the British advance while wishful thinking at GHQ led to air support being diverted just before the Germans counter-attacked.

Graeme

I took the RFC Communiques for the Cambrai period and then made a small attempt to match them to 2 Sqn AFC's activities. I put it up at;

http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/af...fc_cambrai.htm

I put the weather on it from the Communiques.

cam