Captain Ira Taffy Jones

[Ginger.]

He did'nt lie about once a Hun always a Hun.He got that right in both shooting matches.

"It was Udet himself, I think, who replied in print to Jones' charge." Tom,do y ou know where this can be found?

"It was Udet himself, I think, who replied in print to Jones' charge." Tom,do you know where this can be found?

The English magazine "Popular Flying", May 1935.
It's reproduced in "Hanging A Legend", edited by Cliff Chadderton, 1986.
Udet describes the charge "by a certain Lt. Jones" as scurrilous and unworthy of the British airmen Udet knew as friends after the war. He goes into detail refuting charges apparently made by Jones--including one that von R. sought out inexperienced victims--to which Udet questions how anyone could discern the experience of an airman in the middle of a dogfight.
Jones' articles appeared in an English Newspaper, and it's clear from the presentation of the article that this is NOT the opinion of the editors of "Popular Flying": a photo showing the wreath laid on von R.'s grave by British airmen is captioned "This should be sufficient to show what the R.F.C. thought of Manfred von Richthofen."

[Ginger.]

Ira Jones,like more RFC members than these days we like to admit,had nothing but contempt for his enemy.He was a product of his era,in this PC world I find his prejudices and bigotry very refreshing!!!
Tom, hows this for an unpleasant individual?When he killad he clasped his victim to his busom,then sent Mummy a little tin pot,to show her how clever he was.

>>He was a product of his era,<< Well said my dear Ginger friend and perhaps you should be a product of yours? This , is the twenty-first century. My son was born two days ago and despite an English name he is nevertheless a German, like my wife, his Mother. Recent posts should remind us that there are youngsters out there researching and becoming interested in history. This site is a superb resource and I wouldn't want anyone put off by irresponsible comments. There's always room for a site joker and Ginger, you fill that post admirably. Just, maybe a little less aggression.
Regards, John.

[Ginger.]

John,
have you ever read any of Ira's books?if what has been said about them is not challenged,young researchers would not touch them with a bargepole.Some of his writing is a bit near the knuckle for these days.But,I defy anyone not to read parts without laughing out loud.Ira's theory on how to survive a crash landing are hilarious,he should know he had enough.I get accused of being insensitive,but,I have never accused a man who did it for real of being a liar,as one chap has on this thread.Yet read any of the aviation the memoirs they all told tall stories.
Congratulations on the birth of your lad.
Ginger.

[Vigilant]

If Jones made up Mannock's "73" then Chaz Bowyer was being similarly fanciful when he wrote in his book "For Valour: The Air VCs" (Wm. Kimber, London - 1978) ISBN 07183 0425 X, p.162:

"Investigation into his record at the Air Ministry resulted in an _official_ accreditation to Mannock for a total of 73 air combat victories; a fact which was published in the 'Weekly Dispatch' dated 18 May 1919, with an added comment that Mannock ... should be awarded the VC."

Emphasis in the original.

Vigilant

[Mac]

Land sakes, Ginger, how’s killed bosum

Vig ol' mate, how are things with you?
Haven't posted for a while, glad to see things are still running normally round here.!
You stated that Mick was *officially* credited with 73 Victories in May 1919, yet when he was gazetted for his VC in July 1919 he was only credited with 50.
Anybody got any ideas on the apparent discrepancy??
My source was Dudgeon's biog on Mick....It was also listed as such on the plaque below his medals, when they were on show at the RAF museum at Hendon, before they were removed and his VC sold off.
Best Regards
Paul

What a pity this seems to have descended into a spat.
The original question was for information on Jones and the number of his victories is co-incidental. Also his opinion of MvR was his own and to which he was entitled, without anyone getting hot under the collar.
I never found that Jones in his writing ever referred to the number of his victories or indeed if he had any. It would have been considered bad form. You could of course argue that this was simply British hypocrisy.
It was a fact that the greater proportion of MvR's victories were over the obsolete B.E.2C. whereas Mannock's were against German fighters.For MvR it could be argued that it was more important to put out the artillery's eyes.
In addition MvR sat above the fight looking for stragglers who would of course be novices. Again he could have sat above in order to be able to come to the aid of any of his pilots who were in trouble. Rickenbacker did this when he became Squadron Commander.
My own opinion is that Jones was concerned with the growth of the hero worship for MvR and even by 1934 German militarism was again rampant.
Jones was Welsh and proud of it and very patriotic.
His writing was full of florid phraseology and cliches.
Appeasement was rife in Britain and that may have included Popular Flying (Editor W.E.Johns wasn't).
This is rather long and hopefully doesn't ruffle any feathers.
Regards
Peter S