SE5 Machine Guns

I understand the SE5 had a mounted Vickers that shot through the prop and a Lewis gun on the top wing that could swivel.

Can anyone tell me how these guns were actually fired? Did the pilot reach up and pull the trigger of the Lewis like a field gun...looks possible, but seems awkward for anything other than belly shots from underneath?

Both guns were fired via bowden cables that activated the triggers. The levers that fired them varied during production, but essentially there was a lever on the stick that fired one or both. Grider tells of having his mechanics install a Camel joystick in his SE-5a so that he could fire both guns from one lever. The Lewis (made by BSA) was mounted on a Foster mount that allowed the gun to be run back onto a radiused portion that tilted the gun upward for changing the 94 round pannier magazine or shooting upward via the normal trigger, in the manner that Rhys-Davids killed Voss. Both guns were cal..303 rimmed, often refered to as "rifle caliber ammunition".

[stephen]

>>>>>Both guns were cal..303 rimmed, often refered to as "rifle caliber ammunition".

But be not deceived, inquisitive one! I ameth the proud owner of a Lee Enfield which shooteth ye same .303 ammunition, and lo, it kicketh a 9.4 on ye Richter scale. And darn near stoppeth a galloping elephant on steroids, too. Ye olde .303 is one big frickin' bullet and woe be unto he that standeth in its way, be he planted on the Lord's earth or flying ye unfriendly skies.

[Ginger.]

Try shooting .303 machine gun rounds in your trusty Lee Enfield,then you will get a man sized recoil!!!

Amen, Brother Ginger.

Minor nitpicking but aviation Lewis drum holds 97 rounds. At sometime those 3 rounds may have made a hell of a difference. Hehe.

Regards,
Steve

[Ginger.]

Nitpick this then Steve,what is the difference between .303 ball used in tthe Vickers to that used in the .303 rifle?

Sorry gents, but you are both DEAD WRONG. Recoil is a function of the Newtonian third law of motion. Therefore, bullet weight, not velocity is the governing factor in recoil. Rocket effect of unburned powder and added weight of unburned powder and projectile weight are a minor factor.
The cal..303 round was similar to the Krag round, loaded to a maximum pressure of 42,000 psi (give or take). The .30-06 round generated between 50 and 55 thousand psi.
As for the leqwis magazine, the standard ground single row pannier magazine held 47 rounds and the double row aircraft model held 94 rounds. In a double stack of any kind, you will always have exactly twice the capacity of a single stack.
Look it up in Hatcher's Notebook ar any good book on interior and exterior ballistics and Small Arms of the World or Janes.
On the Lewis, the magazine would have to be made with a larger diameter to accommodate 98 rounds, and the receiver was stepped, so the larger magazine case would not fit onto the gun and rotate freely.

While the rounds looked and functioned similarly, each round was individually visually inspected by an armorer before it was loaded into a magazine. Ballistically they were identical. The only difference was that long or short rounds and rounds with loose bullets were hand sorted out to insure more certain gun function in the air.

[Ginger.]

.303 8Z was made for machine guns,a very 'pokey'round.Take it from one who has tried,squeeze one off in your rifle and you will more than rattle your fillings.

If this variant was made during 1917-18, all of my ammunition references have failed to note it. Pokey means slow, sluggish. One would think that something with more rocket thrust would be more robust.
And, if the recoil bothers you, use a #5 Jungle carbine with short barrel and thick rubber butt pad.
Come on over and we'll go to the range!
Incidentally, I HAVE fired an Ishapore .308 SMLE with a steel buttplate and ammo that was de-linked, having originally been destined for machine guns. I'm 71, and my shoulder is still intact.