Billy Bishop

10 March 2001, 11:31 AM

Fine. Have your 72 RFC 'score', but don't say anything like "Bishop only needed 8 more to equal von Richthofen", because you know it ain't so.

Al, if all you care about is the personal integrity of Bishop, you shouldn't mind if Bishop's supposed victories are discussed in all fairness. If something like 75% of his victories turn out to be bogus, we're blaiming the system not him.

Billy_Bishop · 10 March 2001, 12:47 PM

J, first, I don't mind if his victory claims are discussed. EVERYONES' scores, to one degree or another are discussed here.

What I do mind is that unlike you, there are some who would paint a picture of

Billy Bishop, VC, the liar. And SIMPLY because 80+ year old records don't back up his claims.

I'll tell you and everyone else, you're reading me wrong on this. I thing he did overclaim. BUT, I think it was an "honest" mistake on his part. The biggest problem is how to really tell what he did do, versus what he didn't. We can't rely on the German records alone. They've already been shown to have "flaws".

As for Jasta and the rest, I can't help it if the "Perfect" German records aren't so perfect.

You can't prove their "perfectness" just as I can't prove which one of Bishop's claims was "real" and which were not. BUT, I have serious reservations about a record keeping system that somehow missed the 20 or so of his claims that he DID have witnesses for.

My OTHER problem is with those who think he faked his (in)famous VC raid of 2 June, 1917. Specially those who think he would have been so stupid as to shoot his own aeroplane.

Otherwise,

Very Best Regards to all,

Al Lowe

11 March 2001, 09:27 AM

I don't consider myself informed enough to form a opinion of Bishop as a person, one way or the other. However, I would like to restate my desire to keep the discussion of whether Bishop was a fraud separated from what his real score was.
Al, are there any aces in your opinion who ARE fair game for accusations of abusing the system?

Ginger. · 12 March 2001, 02:45 AM

Why is it OK to call Bishop a liar and question a dead Hero's personal honour?Why has it been said more than once that

Albert Ball and

Taffy Jones were raving lunatics?
None of these statements raise a ripple of protest,apart from Al who stands alone.Yet daring to criticise the other side's birdmen brings forth the howling mob.Accusations of at best, driving tame Huns away from the forum,and at worse bringing down the entire fabric of Western civilisation issue forth.
All seems a bit iffy if you ask me.

Billy_Bishop · 12 March 2001, 07:32 AM

I honestly don't know. I couldn't say for sure who might have abused the system. We can speculate all we want to, there's just no real proof on this particular subject.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Vin · 12 March 2001, 08:33 AM

“…tame huns” ?

That is about as objectionable as you can get

Vin

Ginger. · 12 March 2001, 09:46 AM

Don't bet on it.

13 March 2001, 07:07 PM

POST MADE TO BISHOP GUESTBOOK

(AL thanks for posting your site on the Aerodrome forum It is facinating. I read many books about

Billy Bishop about twenty years ago when they were more plentiful. I assumed the idea that he believed in the cause of the war and hated the Huns with a passion. As the war progressed it was natural for this hatred to accelerate due to the loss of his fellow pilots. The theme of your excellent site kind of paints a picture of him going for a high score in victories. I believe that you will agree that numbers were only the measure of his passion for destroying what he believed could take away the British principles he so strongly believed in. Its a slam dunk! He is the superior Ace of the first world war. His passion for what he did and his fight against superior authority to keep doing it puts him head and sholders above the rest. Dead hero's are just that, "dead". Who would want to use them for a role model.)

There appears to be an obvious problem with German losses when the claim is made over German territory Regardless how much the plane is damaged it is not a loss when it lands on home territory.

Ken McKenzie
www.starapex.com

Billy_Bishop · 13 April 2001, 08:40 PM

Actually, it's not my site that paints the picture. It's the movie, "The Kid Who Couldn't Miss" that paints that picture. Not completely true, but not completely false either.

VBR,

Al Lowe