The case for Barker

[Michael]

I'm not a combat pilot, but it seems to me that I'd rather be attacked by 60 aircraft at one time than by four flight of fifteen, on the theory that it is impossible for 60 aircraft to attack one aircraft without risking midair collisions and friendly fire.

Michael

What Micnael said. I'd argue it's patently impossible for 60 aircraft, even of the low speeds of WWI types, to attack a single target, particularly in aircraft without radio communications.

Who knows, maybe it was a stepped JG formation, so 60 aircraft were present in the immediate vicinity, but assuming they had flight leaders with even a tiny grasp on sanity, a relatively small group would attack the single target, while the rest would have maintained watch.

[Wayne Ralph]

Dear Gang,

A few observations and items based on reading your forum.

No statue to Barker has been erected as yet, though fund raising and lobbying is taking place in Dauphin and Ottawa may lead to a statue someday. On June 1st, 2000, the federal government of Canada unveiled a Parks Canada plaque to Barker at the Dauphin Airport, recently renamed Barker Airport in honour of William Barker. The plaque declares Barker to be a Canadian of national historic significance, something that Historic Monuments Board of Canada refused him at earlier periods.

On the matter of October 27, 1918, there are three documents printed in BARKER VC that help decipher what occurred that morning. Page 165-166 has the combat report, as published in The War In The Air; Appendix One has the Victoria Cross citation; Appendix Three has the letter written by Capt. Johnston, following his conversation with Barker in hospital. The latter document is the only one in which Barker directly states anything as to the number of hostile machines (ie, 15). Sixty is most likely a newspaper embellishment, since even the official combat report and VC citation portray significantly fewer machines. It is unlikely, though not impossible, that Barker either wrote his combat report or signed it.

On the matter of victory claims, Christopher Shores in the UK has indicated that there is a high correlation between Barker's combat reports and German and Austro/Hungarian records. It is not a perfect correlation, but it is significantly more convincing than the victory claims for Bishop, especially for the period in June 1918. In Shores' own words: " Barker is one of the greats of RAF history..."

All that said, Barker paid a high psychological and physical price for his immortality in WWI, and offered the following trenchant summary of October 27th: "I was severely wounded and shot down."

I agree...if Voss had fought off 4 RFC squadrons, shot down 4 and lived we'd have a Voss thread every 2 hours.

However i am glad so many on this board DO awknowledge all his accomplishments.

[stephen]

Is the only actual testimony we have drawn from a letter written by an officer who spoke with Barker in the hospital? And that letter says that Barker said there were 10 to 15 German planes? Did I understand that correctly?

Well that explains a lot! And doesn't say much for the accuracy of VC citations.

[Billy_Bishop]

I don't see how you can fault the VC citation. It doesn't even mention how many he encountered. It only makes mention of how many he brought down. Besides, Barker only saw things from HIS perspective. I'm certain the other witnesses provided their own perspective on the action as they saw it.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Craig]

Before I pose my question, let me say this: I believe that Barker was certainly one of the best pilots AND patrol leaders of the war. His victory claims are well documented, and I have no problem with him at all. His skill in combat is beyond reproach. I say this in an attempt to pre-empt any easy accusations of a pro-IGAF bias.
Now: how would you compare the quality of his opponents - both planes and pilots - prior to his experiences on the Western Front?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
If I may, I think I can shed some light on this discussion. From an official publication by the Air Ministry, Air Publication 125, issued September 1929, entitled:
A SHORT HISTORY OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE, page 317, quote, Part 1:
"On the 27th October, 1918, Major W.G.Barker, D.S.O., M.C., gained the Victoria Cross in an epic air fight. This officer was on a refresher course from England with No.201 Squadron, and went out on patrol on a Sopwith "Snipe." He first attacked a hostile two-seater at 21,000 ft. over the Forêt de Mormal, and the enemy aeroplane broke up in the air. (1) (parenthesis mine.) He was then attacked by a Fokker biplane from below and this time was wounded in the right thigh. He fell into a spin, from which he pulled out in the middle of a formation of fifteen Fokkers, two of which he engaged indecisively, although both enemy aeroplanes spun down. (2 OOC.) He turned, getting on the tail of a third which was attacking him, a shot it down in flames from a range of ten yards.(2) At this moment he was again wounded in the left thigh, and fainted."....
End of Part 1
Dan-San Abbott

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Continuing with Part 2.
"He fell out of control,and, on recovering, was attacked by another formation of twelve to fifteen enemy aeroplanes, one of which he shot down in flames at close range. (3) At this juncture Major Barker was hit in the left elbow, which was shattered, and he again fainted, his machine falling to 12000 ft. before he recovered. Another large formation of enemy aeroplanes now attacked, and since heavy smoke was issuing from his machine, Major Barker thought it to be on fire, and tried to ram a Fokker. He opened fire on it from close range, and it fell in flames. (4) he then dived to within a few thousand feet of the ground, but found his retreat cut off by a further formation of eight enemy aerplanes, which attacked him. He fired a few bursts and succeeded in shaking them off, returning to our lines a few feet above the ground, finally crashing close to one of our balloons. During the latter part of this combat Major Barker was without the use of both legs and one arm, and brought his machine back with the thumb switch." That's 4 victories and 2 OOCs. I would say that was a pretty damn good effort and certainly worth the V.C.
blue skies,
Dan-San Abbott

[rammjaeger]

Dan-San,

how are you interpreting that this source is giving Barker 2 additional OOC-victories (=6 instead of 4 in one fight) 9 years after the incident? Did the quotation say 2 OOC (in brackets) or is it your interpretation?