Canadian Senate investigation re: Billy Bishop

Most of the current controversy over Bishop is inflamed by people who aren't comfortable saying "I don't know."

Making a decision makes them decisive. It doesn't make them right, just decisive. It also tends to make many of them closed-minded. Bigots, as an extreme example, are very decisive.

No, I am NOT saying anybody here is a bigot...

Saying "I don't know" doesn't mean I don't have opinions or that I'm not willing to listen to evidence either way. It just means that given the current evidence, I don't feel I can make an accurate decision. I'm a realist; I value accuracy more than making up my mind for the sake of making up my mind.

Here's an opinion: I went to the grocery store today and bought some food. I paid cash and I live alone. Suppose a week from now, someone asks me to prove that I went to the store and bought the food. Well, I ate the food and threw away the receipt. The garbage has already been picked up. Try as I might, I can't find a witness at the store who remembers me being there that particular time. Although there is a record of the transaction in the store's files, there's no way to link it to me.

Obviously, I never went to the store. Right?

How many events in your life can you prove happened? How many could be proved eighty or ninety years from now? Yet, because of a lack of evidence, look how some judge Bishop. Guilty until proven innocent. Having said that, you'd think SOME corroborating evidence from the German side would have survived. After all, there were lots of years between the wars when records since destroyed were around. And nobody has found much reliable material.

I just don't know.

[Billy_Bishop]

FYI, Concerning my remarks about "Knights of the Air", I was referring to a book published just last year, written by Lt. Col. David Bashow. I believe the one mentioned by Cliff Chadderton was published in 1958, written by Norman Harris.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Ron_F]

my misunderstanding reffering to Knights of the air...

i just saw it/remembered it was in the Hanging a legend book...

Ron

[Billy_Bishop]

No big deal. I'm surprised to find two books with the same title printed in the same century!

VBR,

Al Lowe

Al,

Most likely the reason why there are two books of identical titles is because they were originally published in different countries. In this case, LCol Bashow's book was published in Canada.

Either that, or people are getting lazy thinking of new titles for books.

Steven Dieter
Former Historian
Billy Bishop Heritage Museum

Does anyone know the address for retrieving the
free book concerning Bishop mentioned by Billy H.
when he started this thread? He also mentioned
that it contained reports from British agents behind the lines that witnessed the aerodrome attack. This latter point has not been addressed
subsequently and I lack sufficient knowledge of the matter to do so, but it seems to me that if
such testimony exists it ought to put finished
to the matter of whether Bishop attacked the aerodrome or not...and if he did it ought to end
much of the acrimony about his wartime service and
success.

[Billy_Bishop]

The War Amputations of Canada
2827 Riverside Drive
Ottawa, Canada K1V 0C4

That is the address on one of the pages inside the book. You can also check out their web site at http://www.waramps.ca/

VBR,

Al Lowe

The only thing that bugs me personally about the Bishop raid is he was awarded the VC, that was a mistake by his superiors. The VC needs at least 1 witness(survived to tell the tale) other than the recipient.

If they had just waited to award a VC to him for later efforts(like say 60+ victories), there would be no big controversy. I think it's good that "some" doubt is put on this action, even though it pains me to see it, Billy Bishop is one of my heros. The integrity of the rest of the VC awarded to other heros is kept casting "some" doubt on Bishop's VC action.

I firmly believe the raid happened, I do not believe Bishop was a liar.

[Billy_Bishop]

Kory, I think there WAS a witness. Remember this, the British high command waited over two months before announcing that Bishop would be awarded the VC. I looked at ALL the other RFC/RNAS/RAF ace VC winners, the date they did the "deed" and the date of the announcement. Bishop's took the longest.

The announcement in the London Times alluded to witness confirmation. Post war books and articles were FULL of talk about witness confirmation. Most state that confirmation was received from enemy POWs who admited there was a raid. And all this came out BEFORE there was EVER any word of a so-called Controversy.

And I believe that up until WWII the evidence existed that would have told us who the witness(es) was (were). Many records were destroyed during the Blitz and the various times that London was bombed. As well, some records that were deemed "not important" were destroyed as well.

Add to that, Dan McCaffery's 1981 interview with a WWI veteran who related that men in his unit, when they advanced to the area of Estourmel/Esnes had been told by French civilians of a raid by a British plane in the Spring or Summer of 1917, and the 1993 interview by Dan McCaffery of Otto Roosen, former Rumpler pilot that he had heard of the raid and talked to pilots who were there.

Well, do we really need any more??? Apparently so, but ONLY because we're talking about Bishop. IF this were about ANYONE else, almost without exception we'd all be jumping up and down with joy (I am, you just can't see it.)

As far as I'm concerned, there is NO CONTROVERSY surrounding Bishop's VC raid of 2 June, 1917. He did it, there's more than enough testimony from independant sources. And Willy Fry's contention that the Bowden cable could not be disconnected by hand doesn't hold up. End of story.

And as they used to say in the days of sailing ships:

"For what we are about to receive, may we be truly thankful"

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Droops]

Did you not indicate, earlier, that there were British operatives behind the lines who witnessed the raid? Did I misread that somewhere?

If so, their reports would have been classified. Do you think that these were destroyed?

Regards,

John