Canadian Senate investigation re: Billy Bishop

Billy H believes that the Canadian investigation was done to investigate-not so much Billy Bishop-but the Canadian BBC for it derogatory video documentary on Canadas most honored pilot. The committee found that the allegations made by the BBC exceeded the bounds of artistic license and bordered on pure slander for the purpose of destroying heroism, for political purposes. American draft dodgers were welcomed as 'heroes' in Canada.
I recall that two or three years ago, I mentioned that Hugh Wynne produced a series of maps for an issue of OTF which I.D.ed about a thousand airfields on the Western Front. I also mentioned that the Germans had many emergency fields immediately behind their front at which their planes could land; I further mentioned a free book put out by the Canadian in charge of their Amputations Board that discusses the whole Bishop controversy; remember giving the address for retrieval. I know that that book referenced reports by British agents behind German lines as having witnessed Bishop's attack.
Needless to say Bishop was vindicated. I donn't know how many forumites got this book, but it would behoove those people with an onus about Bishop based solely on emotion to read that work and purge your 'gut feelings'

[Ron_F]

Billy,
i have both that book and the OTF book with the airfields because either you , or someone else mentioned it. i needed it not only for the Bishop stuff, but to keep all claims and locations where i can understand the 'lay of the land'.

thanks,
Ron

Ron: I believe that book was called "Hanging Billy Bishop". I read that 400 pager through several times and the author covered all of the bases. I wrote a letter to Bishop's son, Arthur telling him about Hugh Wynne's maps and the German aux fields because I didnn't think it was fair to attack another man's father without proof; this was the same as the 'courtmartial' of Frank Luke controversy> Grant had no power to court-martial a fellow officer: He could only report a delinquency to Colonel Hartney, and Hartney could not appoint a CM without the commanding general's approval. Besides Grant had no real grounds.

Just to clarify (this is easy for me because I'm Canadian):

BBC = British Broadcasting Corporation
CBC = Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

The two are unrelated. Canada is not part of Britain.

It was the NFB (National Film Board of Canada) that produced "The Kid Who Couldn't Miss", not the CBC.

Clifford Chatterton is the head of the War Amps of Canada and the gentleman who spearheaded the reaction against the film, culminating in its discussion in Parliament and the decision to force the NFB to produce another film to balance the first.

[Billy_Bishop]

Just to bring everyone up to speed on this. Paul Cowan, the producer had told people at the NFB he wanted to do a documentary on Billy Bishop. So, they gave him some money and he went out, interviewed a few people (I'm pretty sure it was 5 or fewer) and made a movie that was instead, an examination of "Heroes, how they are 'made' and why we need them." And I think, that SHOULD have been the title of his film.

Up to this time, he had talked to Willy Fry and D.W. Warne, the historian of 60 Squadron at the time (I'm not sure, but I think he still is). AND he had listened to a taped interview at the Imperial War Museum of a Sir Archibald James. On film, he interviewed Cecil Knight, another WWI pilot. Ed Ferko and some others didn't get involved until the Canadian Senate Sub-Committee hearings were underway.

Now, of these people, everyone but Knight told him that Bishop was a liar and a fraud. And the taped interview said that "everyone in the RFC knew that Bishop was "lying about his 'kills'".

Knight, when asked about what James had said, told Cowan ON FILM, that he didn't think it was in Bishop's character to do such a thing.

And for the record, the Canadian Senate investigation was NEVER brought about to investigate Bishop. It was brought about to investigate the movie, whether it was a documentary or not, and whether or not it maligned the reputation of Billy Bishop.

The end result, the NFB had to add a disclaimer at the end, stating that the movie was a "docu-drama" and that it contained both elements of truth and fiction.

There was another movie produced, it was about more than just Bishop, he was covered in that movie, but in my humble opinion, it NEVER reversed the damage done by TKWCM.

For those interested, you can find most of the information in Clif Chadderton's book (actually he calls it a digest), including pertinent parts of the Senate hearings. This book can be had for free from the War Amps of Canada. I would, however suggest a donation. They do wonderful work with child amputees as well, with their associated group called CHAMPS.

If you don't want that much material on one subject, I also recommend "Knights of the Air" by Lt. Col. David Bashow. He only has one chapter devoted to Bishop. But he does discuss the controversy, including several other opinions that have been published on it. Among them, Philip Markham's article that appeared to doubt Bishop. I think he answers most questions from that article pretty well. More importantly, he looks at the whole situation from the FIGHTER PILOT's point of view. Something, that not many of us here seem to understand.

If you don't want to wait for Hanging A Legend, you can see a lot of this info on my site at http://www.billybishop.net/zone.

But I should warn you, my site if FILLED with bias. Most of it, mine.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Ed: Thanks for the correction. It was Clifford Chatterton who compiled "Hanging a Legend" wasn't it? I can't locate my copy of the book or I would summarize Chatterton's response; that is to cite the documentation he compiled. This would set the record straight about Bishop and clear the Forum for serious historical work.

By Coincidence in the latest edition of the Cross and Cockade journal there is an article produced by Alex Revell who was entrusted a document by Wing Commander William Fry,MC, to be published after his death. This previously unpublished document basically sets out William Frys suspicions about Bishop and the raid on the airfield, the missing Lewis Gun and the Bullet holes in Bishops aircraft. He also mentions his supicions of at least one kill that Bishop claimed.

It is interesting to read another side to the Bishop story from one who was there. I am not taking sides in this matter. I am mearly advising forumites where they can read further information regarding Bishop.

[Ron_F]

Billy,
yes , it was Clifford Chadderton who is the author of 'Hanging a legend'. in my post, i meant that i had this book on BB, and the OTF magazine. just as you described most forumites should have to understand the BB controversy. it also contains lots of articles and such from books on it, as well as letters and stories from aces interviewed. including the 'Knights of the air' chapter Al just mentioned.

vbr
Ron

I'm afraid that nothing short of a signed and notarized (and carbon-dated) confession from Will Bishop--and maybe not even that--or authenticated film of the actual raid, will resolve this issue, Billy. For every piece of evidence in favour of Bishop's raid, there is other evidence (or failing that, a lack of evidence) against it.

It's a little like proving the existence of God, IMHO.

Atheists expect God to appear on a talk show and explain where He's been before they would concede His existence. Believers can conveniently just ignore any facts by explaining that it's a matter of faith--and you can't have faith if you need facts, now can you?

Now THERE's a thread we don't want to get in to!

Ed

P.S. I'm an agnostic...

Ed - an agnostic ? Or a daytime atheist ? (one who is not so sure when it gets dark).