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| 2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only) |
12 June 2001, 08:24 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Guest
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At the time of the action for which Andrew Mynarski was awarded the V.C. he was an enlisted man with the rank of WO2. George "Pat" Brophy, the tail gunner was a F.O. and therefore a officer. Mynarski was promoted to P.O. as of Sept 4 1944 but backdated to June 11. This was just incase he was shot down alive, officer prisoners were treated better than enlisted men.
Marlon Schultz
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12 June 2001, 11:06 AM
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#12 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,936
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...and people today think that athletes are "heroes!"
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
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12 June 2001, 12:27 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Guest
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Marlon wrote: "At the time of the action for which Andrew Mynarski was awarded the V.C. he was an enlisted man with the rank of WO2. George "Pat" Brophy, the tail gunner was a F.O. and therefore a officer. Mynarski was promoted to P.O. as of Sept 4 1944 but backdated to June 11. This was just in case he was shot down alive, officer prisoners were treated better than enlisted men."
Yes and no.
Yes, Mynarski was wearing WO2 badges when he jumped from the Lancaster, while Brophy was wearing an officer's stripe. Not mentioned in the VC citation but reported at the time was Mynarski's last words as he saluted - "Good night, sir."
Yes, Mynarski was commissioned in September, backdated to 11 June 1944 BUT...
This was not due to any concern for Mynarski or his treatment as a POW. The Canadian government and RCAF had argued for years with the RAF over various issues, including "Canadianization" of RCAF squadrons overseas and Canadian policies about personnel. The Canadians finally prevailed in late 1942, and the result was that the Canadian policy of more liberal commissioning of aircrew came to prevail. RCAF aircrew going overseas as NCOs were routinely promoted at six month intervals, and commissioned as quickly as possible, even if commissions had to be backdated. Mynarski was one of many who benefited from this policy (or would have, had he lived). If was sheer coincidence that his commissioning had been effective as of the day before he went missing; the commissioning came exactly six months after he had been promoted to WO2.
Mynarski is a particularly appealing VC recipient because he was the "common man" writ large. He came from a working class background, had limited education, and barely made it to aircrew status. He had been a fur-cutter before enlisting, and when presented with a form in early 1944 that asked about his postwar plans, he said he wanted to back to his old job. He was the most ordinary man who did the most extraordinary deed - to risj (and lose) his life for a friend - not by facing bullets (which could offer a quick death) but facing the most dreadful of all fates - suffering and death by fire.
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12 June 2001, 02:53 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 896
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Hugh,
Thanks, I had heard of this amazing act of self-sacrifice, and am ashamed to say it slipped my mind. How can one forget such a selfless act of pure heroism? Unbelievable. Mea Culpa.
LEST WE FORGET
Steve Drew
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12 June 2001, 03:22 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Guest
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>One might add McNamara and Bazelgette
>(although their appointments may have
>put their feats closer to "duty" than
>"beyond the call of duty").
I have always thought McNamara's circumstances pretty odd. Picking up a downed aviator was probably still unique enough in early 1917 to warrant a VC, certainly flying 70 miles and going faint from bloodloss due to a wound adds to it, as does escaping capture by a nearby Turkish Cavalry. McNamara did land knowing he was badly wounded but he picked up Rutherford anyway. Williams did the same feat a little over a month later (without being wounded) and received a DSO for it. Aircraft picking up downed aviators in the Palestinian theatre did become fairly common in 1918, but that was also with the more powerful Bristol Fighter, one one occasion C4626 brought back four aircrew, including C4626's crew plus the pilot and observer of a downed DH9a.
I believe an RNAS pilot in 1915 at the Dardanelles recieved a VC for picking up a downed aviator, The Australian Official History mentions that White of the Mesopotamian Half Flight did the exact same thing around the same time without receiving a medal for it. The nature of territory the Half Flight and 1 Sqn AFC were operating over meant that a forced landing was dangerous, apart form the risk of capture by the Turkish or Germans, there was the risk of getting swallowed by the desert, or landing amongst an unfriendly Arab Group.
Sutherland mentioned that the AFC aviators would stuff their pockets with Turkish piastra's incase they landed amongst an unfriendly Arab group in the hope of buying their lives. The AFC's first loss was Lt Merz in Mesopotamia who was killed by Arabs when he forced landed. Merz and Burns had a shoot out with the Arabs which they lost. Only the remains of their Caudron was found.
In the case of McNamara, his wound came from an exploding shell he was carrying on his Martinsyde which wounded him in the leg. Due to the theatre and the difficulty of logistics, 1 Sqn AFC ran out of bombs and ended up fashioning time delayed 6 inch howitzer shells. It was one of those which prematurely detonated under the Martinsyde after release and the shrapnel from it hit McNamara's leg.
The other unusual thing about McNamara picking up Rutherford was they took off in McNamara's Martinsyde but because his leg was wounded he swung the plane and they broke the prop tip. Williams wrote though that the plane struck a ditch. I dont have McNamara's book unfortunately so dont know what he wrote of it.
The pair had to run to Rutherfords BE which had been downed with engine failure and try to get it started. Because of McNamara's wound, he was unable to swing the prop and ended up being the pilot. Again this may be folklore, the way Williams words it, McNamara decided they could get Rutherfords BE off the ground, and asked Rutherford to swing the prop. Again according to Williams they missed capture only narrowly from approaching Turkish Cavalry.
The upshot was the unwounded Rutherford ended up being a passenger the whole way home. To add to it, apparently McNamara was putting the wind up Rutherford, he must have been joking that he was about to faint lol. I have seen written he had his head out in the slipstream to starve off faintness. One of the BE longerons was also broken and Williams was surprised the longeron survived the trip.
cam
AFC - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/
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12 June 2001, 03:22 PM
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#16 (permalink)
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Guest
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McNamara was rushed to hospital when they landed, the Surgeons packed his leg around tightly with Hot Water bottles, one burnt his heel to the bone. The burn wound was the one which resulted in McNamara being invalided home to Australia.
Some other of the Australian contingent can probably add more, but McNamara's VC the only VC won by the Australian Flying Corps in WWI resides in the RAF Museum. Apparently McNamara did not want it go to Australia after a dispute he had had.
Here (thanks to Graeme Neale) is the citation;
"For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty during an aerial bomb attack upon a hostile construction train, when one of our pilots was forced to land behind the enemy's lines. Lieut. MacNamara, observing the pilot's predicament and the fact that hostile cavalry were approaching, descended to his rescue. He did this under heavy rifle fire, and in spite of the fact that he himself had been severely wounded in the thigh. He landed about 200 yards from the damaged machine, the pilot of which climbed into Lieut. MacNamara's machine, and an attempt was made to rise. Owing, however, to his disabled leg, Lieut. MacNamara was unable to keep his machine straight, and it turned over. The two officers, having extricated themselves, immediately set fire to the machine and made their way across to the damaged machine, which they succeeded in starting. Finally, Lieut. MacNamara, although weak from the loss of blood, flew the machine back to the aerodrome, a distance of 70 miles, and thus completed his comrade's rescue. "
cam
AFC - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/
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13 June 2001, 07:51 AM
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#17 (permalink)
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Guest
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2nd pilot Sgt. James Ward 75sqdn (New Zealand) aboard Welligton Mk1c L7818 gouged handholds in fuselage and wings in attempt to put out engine fire threatening to destroy bomber. Pretty gutsy.
Marlon Schultz
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13 June 2001, 12:43 PM
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#18 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 2,562
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Cam, thanks for plug.
The Turkish adventure was performed by Richard Bell Davies, 3 Wing RNAS; the VC citation reads:
"The King has been graciously pleased to approve of the grant of the Victoria Cross to Squadron-Commander Richard Bell Davies, D.S.O., R.N., and of the Distinguished Service Cross to Flight Sub-Lieut. Gilbert Formby Smylie, R.N., in recognition of their behaviour in the following circumstances. On the 19th Nov. these two officers carried out an air attack on Ferrijik Junction. Flight Sub-Lieut. Smylie's machine was received by very heavy fire and brought down. The pilot planed down over the station, releasing all his bombs except one, which failed to drop, simultaneously at the station from a very low altitude. Thence he continued his descent into the marsh. On alighting he saw the one unexploded bomb, and set fire to his machine, knowing that the bomb would ensure its destruction. He then proceeded towards Turkish territory. At this moment he perceived Squadron-Commander Davies descending, and fearing that he would come down near the burning machine, and thus risk destruction from the bomb, Flight Sub-Lieut. Smylie ran back, and from a short distance exploded the bomb by means of a pistol bullet. Squadron-Commander Davies descended at a safe distance from the burning machine, took up Sub-Lieut. Smylie, in spite of the near approach of a party of the enemy, and returned to the aerodrome, a feat of airmanship that can seldom have been equalled for skill and gallantry."
Bell Davies was flying Nieuport 10 3172 and Smylie a Farman (noted as HF5 in Royal Navy Aircraft Serials and Units).
Graeme
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14 June 2001, 10:50 AM
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#19 (permalink)
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Guest
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Barrett mentioned him landing on a German airfield, then shooting it up. Is this what brought him his DCM ? Given that he died in January 1917, his little raid would have preceeded the much-discussed Bishop one-man raid by almost six months !
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14 June 2001, 11:15 AM
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#20 (permalink)
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Guest
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M.J. Crook, in "The Evolution of the Victoria Cross", deals at length with the courage and self-sacrfice of various recipients, and of necessity draws some comparisons with GC recipients, including those who threw themselves on live grenades. However, he gives special pride of place to a clergyman, the Rev. H.C. Pugh who, when the troopship "Anselm" was torpedoed, insisted on being lowered into the damaged part of the ship where a number of airmen were trapped and the ship on the point of sinking. He remained with them in prayer as the ship finally went down, taking all to their deaths.
Crook, writing of himself in the third person, remarked, "In the opinion of the present writer, of all the courageous deeds of which he has read in his researches on this subject, he would consider that of Mr.Pugh the most moving in its frightening and absolute heroism."
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