Albert Ball & Lothar vR

I've read conflicting accounts on the death of Ball. Is the currently accepted wisdom that Lothar was in the fight, or was he away on leave?

[WFS]

According to most of what I've seen Lothar vonRichthofen, while credited by by the German Air Service with shooting down Capt. Ball, was not at the front at the time. The exact cause of Ball's demise is one of the great mysteries of WWI. One account has him becoming disoriented while in a cloud bank, inverting his plane and flying into the ground. Another, said that he was shot down by a German machinegunner in a clock tower when he flew close to check the time. Regards
Wayne

[Vin]

Lothar Von Richthofen claimed a victory over a triplane on 7 May, confirmed by ground based witnesses, Lts. Hepner and Hailer. Captain C M Crowe, who flew into the cloud, following Ball, reported a triplane above the fight.

Lothar probably was in the fight. Whether he did shoot down Ball, as he claimed, is disputed.

The Clock tower story just doesn't fly to me. All RFC aeroplanes carried pocket watches in a socket on the dash. This was the only real way to keep up with your flying time and fuel. I have several of these RFC aviators watches in my collection.
Cher'o

[Soderbaum]

Hi

There was a bit Triplane-mania within the German troops about the time of Balls death....for example on 10 May 1917 four different Naval units(Köster,Moere,Bamburg and Grossherzog) all reported that they shot down a Triplane...!
It was however a Sopwith-Pup from 4 Naval squadron...

The new types of British aircraft arriving at the front in the first part in 1917 also made it "impossible" for the German for correct identication...

The German did at that time believed that a SE5 was an Sopwith experimental oneseater...

In a combat where different types of hostile aircrafts where involved it was very common that the flyers made wrong identifaction...the human factor...

I wonder if anyone has the combat report of LvR victory for this day...?...or the weekly Kofl 6..?

VBR
Gunnar

i believe that LvR was shot down by Ball in his last flight, LvR was un hurt. Ball then became disoreintated in low cloud and crashed. No Hun could get our Ball

Permit me to quote something from a WW-II vintage book about German wartime aviation.
"The memories of soldiers are generally controversial. War mewmoirs especially those of a loser, often serve only one purpose...a more or less "adjusted" interpretation of historical facts from the author's point of view."
In short, latrineograms and propagandistic bombasts. Only a member of the Von Richthofen family could be on leave and fighting in the skies at the same time. See, this proves that they all had "doubles" flying for them!
As for the watches theory...most pilots set their watch once a day. Ball was known to set his by a clock tower he flew past, since the great works of clock towers kept better time than pocket pieces, and they were not alternately subjected to heat and cold from altitude as well as varying atmospheric pressures that is well known to have an effect on accuracy.
Every time a member of this forum "discovers" the uncorroborated testimony of a Joe Schmoe, it becomes fact that is beyond dispute. When five people witnessed an event, there were five different versions of what happened. Who you gonna believe? Why, your favorite hero, of course.
You are never going to know the truth, other than that the German propaganda machine was more full of hot air than the French, British and American "historians." There were so many damned lies told about aerial combat that when somebody like Fonck told the TRUTH, nobody believed it.
Ball, to the most reliable knowledge, was hit by a German in teh clock tower who fired a watercooled '08-15 at him. His father was so informed by the British authorities and his friends also were of this belief and converyed the knowledge to his family. Kindly witness the spot where he fell and his father had the field paved and a memorial erected.

the fact that the clock tower story first surfaced in print in Quentin Reynold's 'They Fought for the Sky' makes it appear to be just that, a story. Reynolds applied a religious angle to the story - the clock being in a church tower -Ball being a religious fellow who would trust the time kept by the church. Although a fine book, 'TFftS' is loaded with well-padded stories which are not supported by fact

Agreed on the accuracy of Reynold's book. However, it has a value (at least I believe so)- it is straighforwardly written, clear, and is full of high drama and excitement. I first read it when I was twelve or so, and it was that book that started my interest in WWI aviation.

So if you have young kids, give them the book, watch them get excited, and later on after they're hooked you can explain some of the inaccuracies.

[Richard_Schrader]

All;
I believe that Lothar got Ball. Everything else is just British anti-German clap-trap.
Richard