NSW Aviation School, Aircraft and Trucks

Can anyone identify the Trucks that are infront of the NSW Aviation School Hangar. The aircraft infront looks like a Jenny?

The photo of the Hangar :



Detail of the truck on the right :



Detail of the truck on the left and the aircraft :




btw that Hangar was still standing in 80's when I was a young bloke, it has been replaced by the Paint Hangar which is just as large where they paint the RAAF C130's, P3-C's and Boeing 707's at RAAF Base Richmond.



cam

[Darryl]

Cam

The aeroplane is, IMHO, a Deperdussin A Type. Can't quite make out if it is one or two seater..but at a school, two would be a safe bet. It is definately a monoplane although the tail setup does look similar to the Jenny.

The vehicle on the right is probably a Model T Ford pickup although the picture skews it all a bit...maybe something is standing behind the front end?

regards

Darryl

[PeterL]

The vehicle certainly does look like a model T. My rendition is a full cab version, but I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of ragtop versions before cutting any plastic



I'll go with Darryl on the Deperdusin. There was one in those parts according to an AFC history I have.

[Ira_Silverman]

Cam:

I'm in general agreement with Darryl here, but you are putting this old coot's eyes to a test.

The plane does appear to be a Deperdussin - monoplane, spinner and all.

The truck is probably a Model T conversion with a non-standard bed (the standard ones were much shorter). The other possibility is a Vauxhall conversion (what I can see of the front end does have some similarities).

Is there a date that goes with the photo? It might help in analyzing it a bit.

VBR,

Ira

Darryl wrote,
>The aeroplane is, IMHO, a Deperdussin A Type.

I wonder where that came from?


Peter wrote,
>The vehicle certainly does look like a model T. My rendition is a full cab version.

Nice pic :) Substitute "dumb" for extremely skilled in your signature.

>I'll go with Darryl on the Deperdusin. There was one in those parts
>according to an AFC history I have.

I have heard of Deperduissans in the Flying School at Point Cook in Melbourne, but not in the Aviation School in Sydney. I dont know if a Deperduissan would be up to a 1000 km flight? Stutt flew a Jenny down to Point Cook a couple of times, but the CFS had better planes than the Deperduissan.

The NSW Aviation School according to Neville Hayes' article in Insignia Magazine, was 4 Curtiss Jenny's and two Caudrons.

I wonder if that is a photo of Hart's monoplane that he flew in 1912? He crashed it I wonder if it was rebuilt? The American "Wizard" Stone also had a Bleriot monoplane in Sydney in 1912, but that isnt a Deperduissan.


Ira wrote,
"Is there a date that goes with the photo? It might help in analyzing it a bit."

Somewhere between August 1916 when the school opened and February 1919 when it shut.

Sorry :( .




cam

NSW SaS had a second-hand LACRAE lorry, usually shown minus roof, and a Dodge car. The strange aircaft is probably the Richardson Brothers WASP, which was experimental with Gnome and contra rotating props. It never flew. In pics from Colquhoun in 5th class, one in Stutt family snaps, c.1918.
Vehicles on site may not preclude tradesmen/visitors delivering goodies.
School aircraft were 2X JN4 no suffix, 2X JN4B, one initial Caudron ex A D Badgery, three Caudrons built at the school. Add the queer WASP, mid wing, cruxiform triangular tail end, no spinner on my pics of it, and all is revealed!
*
Q. WHEN was the 1916 hangar demolished?

There may appear views of motor bikes, too. Stutt had a Sunbeam/sidecar. student pilots had m/bikes and would rat the aeroplanes for fuel. Those pre-war machines were long gone by the time the School was up and running.No dates immediately to hand

[Darryl]

Neville

Interesting. The WASP would explain why the tailplane looked a little odd for the Dep. I thought it was just the light.

Do I take it from your contra rotating props comment that you are talking two sets of props? as on the later Heinkel or Dornier 'fighter'? Or do you mean counter clockwise?

regards

Darryl

(Strewth, this new scheme is a bother! )Darryl; the WASP had a motor with co-axial prop shafts, one prop in front of the other, both twin bladers, rotating in different, ie conrtary, directions. Pics show it without tailplanes, but everything else in situ.It proved a failure. Note previous memo, lorry was LACRE, not LACRAE. Pronounced la cray, not laker. It was completely rebuilt at the Gov't Garage in Glebe during 1917.
I have the details, but too deep to dig out at short notice. I have the rego or number plate number as 11117, I think.
Asked the Motor Reg Historians about who had it first, what year etc, but I think it came from Dept of Works, or some other NSW state instrumentality. Regular driver was M T Buckton, 17 y o lad. Dodge was still on the go in 1920.

[Darryl]

Darryl; the WASP had a motor with co-axial prop shafts, one prop in front of the other, both twin bladers, rotating in different, ie conrtary, directions.

Neville

I am not often surprised by much these days, truth is stranger than fiction.....but contra rotating props in c.1918 has taken the wind out of my sails. I always thought it was a relatively late (and I might add pointless) invention. Thanks for the info. Any idea what made them try it and wether it was a standard or modified Gnome design?

cheers

Darryl

(Let's hope the webbie shortens that eight-inch URL!)
Ira asked for a date, and D wondered about Contra Props at early date. So, Date of photo..
In the NSW Archives on the School, memo dated 17 July 1918,"Permission was recently granted to Messrs Richardson Brothers to use the Aerodrome at Richmond in connection with trials of the flying machine designed by them.I desire Chief Pilot-instructor Stutt to report whetherany good purpose would be served by permitting Richarson Brothers to use the aerodrome for a further term." Note, this implies an earlier occasion, but I cannot locate my notes or refs for it; but I think I saw one.
Memo, 2-8-1918
Messrs Richardson Brothers removed their machine from the aerodrome early this week. I understand that they have sold the aeroplane to "Auto Aviation School" Sydney. Consequently it will not be necessary for them to use the aerodrome for a further period. W J Stutt."