Medal of Honor to SBS???

[john_g]

Terry and Leo
A little debate did no one any harm.
My objection to this thread is as noted before, if we are good enough to put our lives on the line defending the world/America from terrorism then if out military deserve any award, it should be recognised. The Irish-American community should also welcome the fact that UK forces are fighting on their behalf as well as others.

To be honest I quite often get a feeling on this site that no matter what the British forces (This includes all the forces who fought under the colours) have contributed to any conflict, they are constantly denigrated.

As a Catholic Englishman ( and proud of it). I know our forces do a good job, they are not perfect either. But they do not go around planting bombs in public places or knee capping, and if they shoot and make a mistake they can be brought before a court of Justice. I wonder how you Americans would feel if you were reminded of the performance of your National Guard on certain University campuses in the 1960's, or the use of Napalm against women and children in Vietnam. These reports do not bring honour on US forces, do your politicians take account of these communties when handing out awards to US forces? I think not.

For the vast majority of us on the UK mainland, religion is not a factor , we just find it hard to belive that one of our Allies continues to support either of the murdering sides in Ireland. After all the money raised in the US not only kills English/Scottish and Welsh people but Irish citizens north and south. The bombs do not discriminate who is who.

I think I have said enough.

John

Leo & John,
Thanks for your replies. Getting back to the main question, I can't really see the US awarding a Medal of Honor to a foreign soldier when it has not awarded "The Big One" to any of its own troops in the campaign. I can see a lesser gong being given without too much political fuss.
I have a feeling that the British government will be much like the Canadians, finally dishing out decorations well after the event - minimum one year.
John, has anyone on your side of the pond heard anything yet about British decorations for Afghanistan (other than the "two VC's to SAS" legend)?
The peculiar fondness of certain segments of American society for all things Irish is odd. I have been in pubs in Boston that are filled with what I call professional Irishmen; guys who have never been closer to Ireland than Cape Cod but still have the accent,etc. What a farce! As someone of Anglo-Irish background myself I have heard some people who had fully bought in to the "IRA good,Brits bad" philosophy, singing sad ballads about The Troubles and downing Guinness.
I have always felt sorry for the poor bloody foot soldier stuck in the middle when the IRA and the various Protestant militant factions have been busy wreaking havoc.

[john_g]

Terry, Leo & Michael,

Terry, I must admit that I am not really interested in medals (apart from WW1 DFC's) or "up" on what is going on. I cannot really answer your question, but I suspect you are right, we will follow the Canadian line. There has been some talk about awarding the VC, but to be honest I am not sure what action our boys have been involved in or if it was the SAS, but if any one was involved it is most likley to be the SAS. If the SAS are to be awarded any medals by the British goverment, I doubt that there will be much publicity about it, if any for several years. I certainly concur with the sentiment of your last remark.

Michael.
Your first statement is of course right. Did you ever see the news reel films of the two British Soldiers who became lost and drove into a IRA/Republican funeral parade?, they died terrible deaths.
Your second statement is also correct, it is about power, but do not underestimate the religious factor in this conflict.

Whatever out feelings about the situations discussed here at least we have had a chance to put out points of view across, sorry if I come across as a bit of an extreme nut case?

John

[leo]

The British Army has a proud tradition. It has proven itself time after time for several centuries. If a person denigrates it "all the time", that person does not deserve a respectful reply. Every Army, and I mean EVERY Army, has an episode where it has let its traditions slip and where it may have done some act which brings no credit.

To the soldiers of the UK and Commonwealth who are fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere, my thanks. You ARE appreciated.

Religion in Northern Ireland is NOT the main cause of the "Troubles" Political power and economic oppportunity have a lot to do with it as does the fact that the traditions of the party are 100% opposed.

Thank everyone for their replies.

[Billy_Bishop]

I thought the SAS and the SBS were two different units? If that's the case, then why should any Irish-American object?

For that matter, why should they object if the MOH were to be given to a member of the SAS? I doubt very much if any current members of the SAS had much if anything to do with what might have happened in 1969 in Northern Ireland.

VBR,

Al Lowe

[Testerchild]

You are quite right, Al. *The SAS is the Army's 'Special Air Service'. *The SBS is the Royal Navy's 'Special Boat Squadron'. *Both are as good as eachother, and that is very good.

As to 'political objections': rather than worrying about Ireland, I think it is more likely that the American Gov't might be unwilling to publicly admit the degree of help they've been getting from their allies. *What was it the CO of the U.S. Mountain Division said? *"We don't do mountains": hence calling in the Royal Marines who DO mountains! *At least, that's the way the press put it over here.

Cheers!

And God Bless America! *

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Ladies and Gentlemen;
I have a greater problem with the IRA than the SAS. I categorized the IRA along with Hamas, Al Qaida and other terrorists. Anyone who hides behind a ski mask is a coward!
An Irish American,
Dan-San Abbott

Dan San,
I agree 100%. The SAS is probably the world's finest unit of its type, with a brilliant record of taking out Her Majesty's enemies.
The IRA, from my viewpoint is a terrorist/criminal gang using the tragedy of Irish history for its own gain.

[Vin]

The Para's were, and it is worth reminding all that they went in, as did the rest of British Forces, to keep the two side's from killing each other. In stead they (The Britsh Forces) became the meat in the sandwich, the para's did not go into Londonderry, mindlessly murdering and pillageing the locals.

British forces went into Derry in August 1969, the stated aim being to keep the peace between the two communities. This should have included doing what the RUC was supposed to do but would not, protect republican/civil rights gatherings and marches from attack by Loyalists and stop raids into catholic areas. Instead, the British forces joined the Loyalists in attacking Republican gatherings. At the Easter Uprising commemorations in April 1970 in Derry, British forces joined in the attack on the commemorators. The then newly formed provisional IRA acted to to protect the commemorators, the first conflict between the British Army and the Provos. The first British fatality was Robert Curtis, who died in February 1971, 10 months after that first conflict and 18 months after the British Army came to keep the peace. The British Army did not become the meat in the sandwich, it became one of the slices of bread. The IRA was given life as a consequence of the failure of the military to protect civil rights marchers from violent attacks by the loyalist majority and particularly following the Bloody Sunday attack by the paras in 1972.

If the military had done its job properly then, i.e. acted as a disinterested peace keeping force, the last 33 years might have been very different.


Vin

[leo]

If the Brits had kept their cool during the 1969 Civil Rights demonstrations in Derry, there would have been no need for the IRA.