Ilya Mourametz

[leo]

The Russian designer Sikorsky was responsible for the design of the Russian 4 engine bomber called Ilya Mourametz. How did it compare with some of the other bombers used in the war? Caproni, Vickers,Gotha , Staaken, and Handley Paige. I understand that only one was lost in combat.

[GrzeM]

Leo!
What exactly you want to know?
I've got a lot of info in some books and articles.
It was very early design, 1913, had 4 engines. Not impressive bombload, but good range for its time. Only one was shod down, mostly due to small fighters activity on eastern front in early years.
Some were even used by Poles, during the war and post war too.
G.

[leo]

I have been curious as to why the Mourametz used four engines instead of two, Was it designed that way or was it because of a shortage more powerful powerplants. I was not aware it was used by the Polish Air Force. Do you have any details?

I have read that the Ilya Muromets was designed as a reconnaisance platform, and Sikorsky was trying to extend the range by being able to carry more fuel. Sort of the Saturn V of its day.

I have no idea where I read that so I can't quote a source.

Andy Townsend

I have read that the Ilya Muromets was designed as a reconnaisance platform, and Sikorsky was trying to extend the range by being able to carry more fuel. Sort of the Saturn V of its day. *

I have no idea where I read that so I can't quote a source. *

Andy Townsend

[GrzeM]

Ilia Muromiec (Polish spelling) pre-prototype was plane called Grand (or 'Bolshoi', or 'Russkiy Vitiaz'), at first two engined (100hp Argus), but found underpowered and two additional Arguses were installed, at first in tandem with first two (as pushers), but research determined that pushers are less effective, so Sikorski moved 3rd and 4th engine to leading edge of wing, like first 2 engines.
Grand was destroyed by Polish pilot Adam Haber-Wlynski, one of aviation pioneers, pre-WWI aerobatic champion and test pilot of Moscow DUX Airplane Factory (which later produced Nieuports). During airshow Haber-Wlynski's rotary engine detached from his plane in flight, and hit Grand, standing on airfield. After that Sikorski decided not to rebuild that plane.
IM plane was military version of Grand, bigger and with diferent fuselage.
Sikorski's intention at first was just to build really big plane, as it was 1913, so aviation was in it's earliest days, and it was no clear what use can that plane have.
First examples were rather passenger planes, equipped with luxury wicked furniture inside and sightseeing balkony on top of fuselage.
G.

[GrzeM]

After October revolution Poles formed their own military Polish 1st Corps in Russia, as they didn't wanted to be commanded by bolshevik.
During collapse of Russian forces on eastern front, many airfields were captured by Germans, including heavy bombers airbase in Winnica. One IM plane was evacuated to Polish occupied airfield in Bobrujsk. Plane was incorporated into 1st Corps Air Detachment, and pilot, Colonel Baschko, greatest Russian bomber aviation hero, decided to enlist into Polish forces.
Finally 1st Polish Corps was demobilized due to German demands, and its planes were destroyed. IM was evacuated before, and crash landed near Smolensk, its crew went, through Murmansk, to France, where they joined Polish Army.
What happened to the plane, it is unknown.
G.

[Billy_Bishop]

According to "Aircraft of WWI" by Kenneth Munson, 80 were produced, of which three were lost. One through sabatoge, one in crash landing, and ONLY ONE by fighter attack, AFTER it had destroyed 4 of it's attackers!!!

While it had an endurance of 4-5 hours, it's top speed was ONLY 60 mph. Great endurance, but at that speed, not neccessarily a great range.

Max bomb load was 1,120 lbs.

Ceiling was 6,560 feet, which was also where it reached it's max speed.

VBR,

Al

[GrzeM]

Al!
Good, but not perfect!
IM was not single design, but something like airplanes family. There were 13 main versions, with 9 different engine types (German, Russian, British and French), power from 73 to 162 kW each, wingspan from 24.9 to 34.5 meters, max speed from 96 to 137 km/h, full weight 4400 kg to 7460 kg, celling 2000 to 4600 m, range 380 to 620 km. Guns were Lewis, Madsen and Maxim (maybe other too).
And because RBWZ factory was more like manufacture, almost every single example was different! Some versions had even real tail gunners!
Complicated subject, isn't it? That's why reply took me so much time, Leo.
G.

[Billy_Bishop]

The info I posted was for the Type B, but the number produced and lost was for ALL types.

Based on the availability of engines, I doubt if performance changed much. Crew did vary to as many as 7.

VBR,

Al Lowe