Death of the Greatest

Richard_Schrader · 6 April 2002, 04:47 AM

I heard somewhere that Manfred Richthofen was shot on the ground after he crashed. I never gave this any serious thought until I saw a couple of pictures of triplane's seat. There is no hole in the seat that matches where the deadly bullet entered the Baron's back. ??? Any thoughts?

Richard

Billy_Bishop · 6 April 2002, 04:54 AM

Yeah, like maybe he wasn't killed in the air, but was murdered on the ground?

VBR,

Al Lowe

Barrett · 6 April 2002, 10:50 AM

It's been awhile, but I think that Franks addresses reports of MvR's death on the ground in "The Red Baron's Last Mission." Reportedly MvR issued a last gasp to a Brit infantryman--something like "Alles kaput"--but there's no evidence that he was killed by anything but the one round sustained while chasing May.
The fatal bullet did not enter his back--it was under the right armpit, exiting portside. Evidently it was the only one of the 90 rounds or so that Popkin fired at him that hit the tripe (assuming, of course, that Popkin do'ed it.) ???
Thus assuring ANOTHER of those WKTRB? threads...
Hee.

Richard_Schrader · 6 April 2002, 11:30 AM

Barrett;
Thanks Pard, I thought that the bullet entered much lower.

Richard

6 April 2002, 12:43 PM

Barrett, I think the soldier who made it first to the crashed Triplane was an Aussie...
As to the seat-- there is a picture of it in Kilduff's THE ILLUSTRATED RED BARON, on page 124. The caption is as follows:
"The seat of Fokker Dr.-1 425/17 was awarded as a trophy to Captain A.

Roy Brown, the putative victor over Richthofen. In turn, he presented it to the Royal Canadian Military Institute at Toronto..."
It was even suggested that MvR was machine-gunned in the back, but this was actually a row of rivets on the seat back, visible because the fabric cushion had been removed.

7 April 2002, 07:49 PM

According to the history of the 44th Battalion AIF (whose members were the first to get to the crashed plane) Richthofen was already dead.
The plane and the body soon began to get looted and an officer of the 44th Battalion threatened to shoot a man if he continued in his attempt to try and get a ring of Richthofen's finger by cutting off the finger. Thus a guard was put on the plane and body.
The same history states that after the war, a soldier who had taken the Baron's watch, sent it back to Richthofen's mother in Germany.
Feeling Guilty perhaps?

Immo_Frese · 7 April 2002, 09:37 PM

Saying words like "alles kaputt" whilst dying would have been very uncommon for a german...It doesn't make sense in such a situation and I never heard it before that other wounded soldiers used it in similar situations. It's a term that does not fit the german usage.

Immo

rammjaeger · 8 April 2002, 01:33 AM

>>I *heard somewhere that Manfred Richthofen was shot on the ground after he crashed.<<

I have seen this description of MvR´s end repeatedly at the Forum here but a source was never quotated. Is there anybody out there who could give the source for this claim?

BTW there were possibly more aviators killed after their crash or forced landing ning than we are assuming (but I doubt that for MvR).

VBR
Rammjaeger *

8 April 2002, 04:19 AM

Quote:

>>I *heard somewhere that Manfred Richthofen was shot on the ground after he crashed.<<

I have seen this description of MvR´s end repeatedly at the Forum here but a source was never quotated. Is there anybody out there who could give the source for this claim?

A few years back this forum was frequented by one contributor who used the sign-on name "Rittmeister". Nutty as a fruitcake. She claimed that she had the memories of von Richthofen or was his reincarnation or something like that. Anyway she claimed that she (MvR) recalled being shot in the back by an Australian soldier ! Andrew took strong exception to her so he can reveal more if asked. Aside from this absurdity, I have never heard of Himself being shot after he landed.

Pilots who crash landed in the Middle-East were at risk of being killed by wandering bands of Arabs, the fate of the first AFC casualty, Merz.

Vin

Amy · 8 April 2002, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Saying words like "alles kaputt" whilst dying would have been very uncommon for a german...It doesn't make sense in such a situation and I never heard it before that other wounded soldiers used it in similar situations. It's a term that does not fit the german usage.

Immo

Hi Immo:

FWIW, the Aussie who reached the plane just before MvR passed away spoke no German, so if MvR had said (or mumbled) anything, there's no telling what it really was.

Amy