C.H.K. Osborn, DSO

[Andrew_Smith]

Hugh,

I have an article from *C & C Spring 1977. It claims that the vessel attacked by Edmonds was grounded and abandoned and that it had been the victim of a British submarine a few days earlier. R.D. Layman the author of the article states that at best guess the ship was the Scham (3662 GRT, 1884). Layman says however this cannot be confirmed.

Hugh a copy of the article is on its way to you.

Take care mate,

Andrew

[Regulus]

Andrew,

The Sam or Scham does not figure on the losslist of the Osmanian Navy.
The best possibility seems to be the Mahmut Sevket Pasa. But even this remains partly a question mark. The ship was offcially out of service in November 1918... ???

VBR from Regulus

[Andrew_Smith]

G'day Regulus,

According to Jones 'War in the Air Vol II' the ship attacked by Edmonds was never claimed as sunk. Layman in his article states;

"Neither was it offically claimed that the ship hit by Edmonds on 17 August 1915 was sunk -- only that it was set on fire, gutted and eventually taken to Constantinople."

Andrew

[Regulus]

Ah ! Andrew,

You're talking about the 17th August ! I was about the 12th !
Could be a point to look further at. Will see if I can find anything more !

VBR from Regulus

[Droops]

Three questions:

What does A/V/M stand for?

I thought that the OBE came after the DSO, so wouldn't it be Wing Commander Charles Humphrey Kingsman Edmonds, DSO, OBE?

Is there another level besides Companion for the DSO?

Thanks in advance for comments on a subject that's a bit off-topic.

John

In the article I mentioned previously authored by Ian Burns on the operations of HMS Ben-my-Chree this is what he said about this action:
the ship Edmonds torpedoed had indeed been beached and abandoned some days previously. It was a victim of British Submarine E-14.

Marlon Schultz

[LizMilne]

In answer to Droops' questions:

1. A/V/M stands for Air Vice Marshal the RAF rank equivalent to a US 2-star General

2. If the award were an OBE then yes, it would be listed after the DSO. It is however a 'CBE' and as such precedes the DSO. To clarify, the Order of the British Empire is awarded in several classes. Classes I (GBE-Knight Grand Cross), II (KBE-Knight Commander), and III (CBE-Commander) of these come before the DSO in the order of precedence/wearing, whilst classes IV (OBE-Officer) and V (MBE-Member) come after the DSO.
3. There is only one class of DSO, companion, bars being awarded for subsequent acts deserving of the award.

[Droops]

Thank you Liz. I'm smacking my head because I couldn't figure out A/V/M.

I was aware of the various levels of the Order of the British Empire, and you confirmed what I suspected. An OBE or MBE comes after the DSO, but a CBE, KBE, or GBE comes before. When I saw typed 'OBE, DSO,' for a minute I thought I was losing my mind.

Again, many thanks.

John

[Graeme]

From the Guinness Book of Air Facts and Feats (3rd edition, 1977):

"The first air attack using a torpedo dropped by an aeroplane was carried out by Flight Commander C H Edmonds, flying a Short 184 seaplane from HMS Ben-My-Chree on 12 August 1915, against a 5,000 ton (5,080 tonne) Turkish supply ship in the Sea of Marmara. Although the enemy ship was hit and sunk, the captain of a British submarine claimed to have fired a torpedo simultaneously and sunk the ship. It was further stated that the British submarine E14 had attacked and immobilised the ship four days earlier.

However, on 17 August 1915 another Turkish ship was sunk by a torpedo of whose origin there can be no doubt. On this occasion Flight Commander C H Edmonds, flying a Short 184, torpedoed a Turkish steamer a few miles north of the Dardanelles. His formation colleague, Flight Lieutenant G B Dacre, was forced to land on the water owing to engine trouble but, seeing an enemy tug close by, taxied up to it and released his torpedo. The tug blew up and sank. Thereafter Dacre was able to take off and return to the Ben-My-Chree."

Edmonds' DSO was awarded in February 1915 so was definitely not the result of the above actions. George Bentley Dacre got the DSO for his exploits, Gazetted 19 November 1915.

Graeme