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2002 Closed threads from 2002 (read only)

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Old 21 March 2002, 12:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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EDMONDS, Charles Humphrey Kingsman, Lieutenant, Royal Naval Air Service - unit ? - Distinguished Service Order - awarded as per London Gazette dated 18 February 1915. No citation published for this award although most sources say it was for Cuxhaven Raid of 25 December 1914. However, AEROPLANE of 11 April 1917 (reporting his marriage) stated: "He won his DSO by sinking a Turkish transport in the Marmora with a "projectile" from a seaplane, flying over the Gallipoli Peninsula from the Aegean to reach his objective. The feat was the first of its kind in the history of war."

Whether the DSO was for Cuxhaven or this latter (obviously an early use of torpedoes), I would appreciate guidance and inforrmation on this award and the torpedo attack.
Old 21 March 2002, 12:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If there's one person I can think of who might have an answer on the ship, than it is Michael Lowrey. Put your question on the following forum :

Michael has about all the shiplosses you can imagine on WW I. I wasn't able to find anything in what I have on the Osmanian navy losses. Hope you get succesfull.

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Old 21 March 2002, 02:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hugh, from The Naval Who's Who 1917 *(1981 reprint by JB Hayward & Son) page 237:
"EDMONDS, Flight-Lieut. C.H.K., took part as a seaplane pilot in the air reconnaissance of the Heligoland Bight, 25th December 1914 (London Gazette 19th February 1915) D.S.O. for this service, 19th February 1915. *Promoted Flight-Com. 15th February 1915; commended for services for actions in Gallipoli, April 1915-January 1916 (London Gazette 14th March 1916); Promoted Squadron-Commander 30th June 1916."

From Creagh & Humphris 'The D.S.O. 1886-1923' Part one, pp 349-350 (Hayward reprint 1978 ):
"London Gazette 19th Feb. 1915.--'Admiralty, 19 Feb. 1915.
The King has been graciously pleased to give orders for the following appointments to the Distinguished Service Order. To be Companions of the Distinguished Service Order...Capt. Cecil Francis Kilner, R.M.L.I. (Flight Commander) and Lieut. Charles Humphrey Kingsman Edmonds, R.N. (Flight Lieutenant).
Admiralty Memorandum on the combined operations by H.M. Ships and Naval Seaplanes on the 25th Dec. 1914. On the 25th Dec. 1914, an air reconnaissance of the Heligoland Bight, including Cuxhaven, *Heligoland and Wilhelmshaven, was made by naval seaplanes, and the opportunity was taken at the same time of attacking with bombs points of military importance....The following Air Service officers took part...Several machines were hit but all remained in the air for over three hours and succeeded in obtaining valuable information regarding the disposition of the enemy's ships and defences. *Bombs were also dropped...Flight Commanders Kilner and Ross and Flight Lieutenant Edmonds regained their ships..."
p 350, entry dedicated to Edmonds:
"He ...took part in the Cuxhaven Raid in Dec. 1914; was mentioned in Despatches and created a Companion of the Distinguished Service Order, as above mentioned. He served in Gallipoli in 1915, and was mentioned in Despatches...."

These would appear to confirm that the DSO was for Cuxhaven. *

Somewhere I have a couple of books that might make mention of the torpedo exploit in the Sea of Marmora. When I lay hands on them will relay anything that I find.

Old 21 March 2002, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Don't bother with R. Layman' book on Naval Aviation. Already checked, no mention. R.
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Old 21 March 2002, 11:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for help to date - I particularly look forward to pointers on the torpedo attack.
Old 22 March 2002, 08:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Dear Hugh,
*This is from Profile 74, THE SHORT 184, page 5:
"On 12th August 1915 Flight Commander C.H.K. Edmonds scored a hit at 350 yards range on a 5,000-ton Turkish supply ship off Injeh Burnu. At the time Edmonds did not know that his victim had been immobilised four days earlier by the submarine E.14. This did not diminish the significance of his achievement, which he repeated on 17th August when he torpedoed a Turkish supply ship bringing stores and reinforcements to Ak Bashi Liman. Both Shorts were out that day; the other, piloted by Flight Lt. G. B. Dacre, torpedoed a large steam tug in False Bay."
* The above, of course, refers to the Gallipoli Campaign; hope it was of some help...
Old 23 March 2002, 02:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Many thanks for information on this subject (incidentally, I apologize for the whole thread being named "Osborn" when it should have read "Edmonds" - finger trouble on my part).

As many know, I have been patching together an aerial DSO data base, and the entry for Edmonds read:

EDMONDS, Charles Humphrey Kingsman, Lieutenant, Royal Naval Air Service - unit ? - Distinguished Service Order - awarded as per London Gazette dated 18 February 1915. For services in Cuxhaven Raid of 25 December 1914 (see Flight, 26 February 1915 for despatch on this operation). Biographical details courtesy of Graham Neale and Who's Who in Aviation, 1928 (London, Airways Publications, 1928, copy consulted in Canada Air Museum, Ottawa) which identifies him as Wing Commander Charles Humphrey Kingsman Edmonds, OBE, DSO. Born at Lincoln, 20 April 1891, son of Mr.and Mrs. Charles Edmonds, Lymington, Hampshire; held Royal Aero Club Certificate No.206; learned to fly at Bristol School, Larkhill, April 1912 (instructed by Geoffrey Paine); reported to have "served in the Balkan War, 1911-1913" (in what capacity is not known); appointed to Central Flying School, Upavon, May 1914; participated in Cuxhaven Raid (1914) and at Gallipoli (1915); Wing Commander, 31 December 1917. Also awarded French Croix de Guerre with Palm (1918). Passed Army Staff College, Camberley, 1919-1920; instructor at RAF Staff College, 1922-1925. Also decorated by Italian government. On 7 August 1931, G/C E.H.K. Edmonds posted to command No.21 Group, West Drayton. As of 1 January 1945 he was A/V/M C.H.K. Edmonds, CBE, DSO (Mentioned in Despatches for services with Allied Expeditionary Air Force). Aeroplane of 11 April 1917, reporting his marriage, stated:

"He won his DSO by sinking a Turkish transport in the Marmora with a 'projectile' from a seaplane, flying over the Gallipoli Peninsula from the Aegean to reach his objective. The feat was the first of its kind in the history of war."

The magazine was clearly wrong in linking his DSO to the Marmora incident, and the entry will be corrected shortly. Along the way I have been directed to a couple of very interesting websites. By way an aside, in another data base, I find the following (there seems to be some disagreement as to his name - Kingsman or Kingsmill):

EDMONDS, Charles Humphrey Kingsmill, A/V/M, CBE, DSO (Royal Air Force) - Allied Expeditionary Air Force - Mention in Despatches - awarded as per London Gazette dated 1 January 1945. Public Record Office Air 2/9017 has recommendation for a CB.

"This officer has been Air Officer Administration of the Allied Expeditionary Air Force since its inception. The fact that the organization proved adequate for the task, and that the whole of the build-up on the continent was carried out without a hitch, reflects great credit on his work in this capacity."
Old 23 March 2002, 07:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If this is of any further help, while at Gallipoli, Edmonds served "aboard" the converted seaplane carrier 'Ben-my-Chree', commanded by Squadron Commander C.J. L'Estrange Malone (sailed from England on 21st May 1915, arrived Iero Bay, Mitylene, 12th June).
Captain "Killerfish" Lewis
Old 24 March 2002, 08:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi Hugh,

* *How's life with you?
There is an excellent article in OTF Vol9 No2 1994 on the operations of HMS Ben-my-Chree.

* *Last I heard the author Ian Burns resides in Toronto.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * Marlon
Old 25 March 2002, 02:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Could be I found your ship of 12th August. Michael did set me on the right track. Did post it on the U-boat Net. Will continue to see if I can find something on the 17th August. Problem is Osmanian losses list is difficult to read and sometimes very incomplete, but seems the best existing for the moment.

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chk, osborn, dso

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