Victoria Cross

Andrew_Smith · 20 January 2002, 02:06 PM

At the risk of sharing the crow with Kory.

I am 90% sure that Albert Jacka VC was recommended for at least 1 bar to his VC, in the action at First Bullecourt, he eventually was awarded a bar to his MC.

I am not sure if he was recommended for a bar to his VC at Pozieres. He was awarded the MC for this action.

Andrew.

Andrew_P · 20 January 2002, 05:30 PM

Hi Andrew

I am pretty sure that Jacka was recommended for a bar to his VC for his actions at Pozieres. But I have heard that he previously had a clash of personalities with his battalion and brigade commanders, the very people who would have had to send his VC reccommendation on.

Cheers
Andrew P

Billy_Bishop · 22 January 2002, 10:05 AM

Ok, here comes the big one. I know everyone likes to keep on saying how Bishop had no witnesses for HIS VC. My question is this...How do we know for certain that NO ONE else put in a report to support his claim??

After all, they took over two months before the award was announced. I'm sure they weren't just twiddling their thumbs while trying to decide whether or not to award the VC to Bishop.

Isn't it conceivable that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, put in a report that supported Bishop's claim??

Granted, it's difficult to prove either way now, since all the paper work is now gone, either destroyed during WWII, or cleaned out during one of their periodic paper reduction clearings.

But it IS something to think about, don't you think???

VBR,

Al Lowe

Andrew_Smith · 22 January 2002, 03:20 PM

Quote:

My question is this...How do we know for certain that NO ONE else put in a report to support his claim??

After all, they took over two months before the award was announced. *I'm sure they weren't just twiddling their thumbs while trying to decide whether or not to award the VC to Bishop. *

Isn't it conceivable that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, put in a report that supported Bishop's claim??

Al,

I guess if they had evidence that collaborated Billy's CITAR, then I believe the award would NOT have taken 2 months to approve.

What I beleive is not important, the fact is Billy was awarded a VC. People argue the veracity of his CITAR but until some long lost document comes to the fore then I think we should let the poor bloke rest in peace, otherwise we are dealing with pure speculation.

As for your last question. Anything is possible, except maybe for Vin and Amy seeing eye to eye

Andrew

Rick · 22 January 2002, 07:03 PM

Al, let it rest in peace. R.

Billy_Bishop · 22 January 2002, 08:29 PM

Under normal circumstances I would let it rest, but then there's all the denials by those who would prefer to prove Billy Wrong.

I don't mind their theories, as long as they don't mind my theories. Problem is, most of them do!!

But, I'll not bring it up again, until someone else does.

VBR,

Al Lowe

Barrett · 24 January 2002, 03:29 PM

Crooks' generally excellent 1970s study, "Evolution of the VC," makes frequent mention of the "weeding" of VC records from prior to WW I onward. No date or explanation is given, but it appears to have occurred after WW II since there's almost nothing in the records for those eras. Very little on aviation (see my upcoming post on Hawker.)
WHOMEVER weeded the VC files richly deserves the historic ritual of hanging, drawing, and quartering. Even if the SOB is dead...it was a crime against history. Anyway, with those files went any reasonable hope of learning how Bishop's controversial VC was permitted. I can say, however, that in the 20th century the VC has been far more equitably administered than the Medal of Honor.

Billy_Bishop · 24 January 2002, 04:51 PM

Barrett, thank you!! I now feel vindicated.

VBR,

Al Lowe

terry · 25 January 2002, 02:22 AM

Barrett,
Perhaps you could pass on your thoughts on your last comment regarding the VC being more equitably administered than the MOH.
I have always wondered how the two stacked up against each other. Not, obviously, in the individual acts of valour performed by the recipients, but more in numbers awarded, politics involved,etc.
I think around 3400 MOH's have been awarded, compared to about 1350 VC's, although the VC has been around longer, and available to be earned by more individuals (eventually the entire empire/commonwealth).
A total of 182 VC's were given for WW2 - I am not sure of the MOH total for that conflict. Canada had some 1,100,000 people in uniform in WW2, and 13 earned the VC, plus three others who were serving in the British forces, a relatively common occurence in those days.

Andrew_P · 29 January 2002, 05:39 PM

In WW2 there were also instances of the George Cross being awarded to members of the services.
The George Cross is the highest medal that civilians can be awarded, yet I know that in Australia's case during WW2 members of the Army & Navy were awarded this medal.
I wonder why they were awarded the GC instead of the VC.

Maybe a question I'll have to take to the Victoria Cross forum.

Cheers