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| 2002 Closed threads from 2002 (read only) |
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2 March 2002, 05:10 AM
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#61 (permalink)
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 300
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Barrett (post 50) asked about First World War VC nominations that failed, and although I was certain such had happened, I could give no examples. I have one now.
BORTON, Amyas Eden, Captain. Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) and Royal Flying Corps - No.8 Squadron - Distinguished Service Order - awarded as per London Gazette dated 3 July 1915.
"When on flying reconnaissance near Staden on June 7th, 1915, Captain Borton was wounded in the head and neck by a bullet from a hostile aeroplane, and although suffering from loss of blood he contrived, with the assistance of his observer, Captain Marshall, to bandage his wounds and completed the reconnaissance on the prescribed course. His injuries are such that he is not yet out of danger.
"Captain Marshall continued his observations, after rendering all possible ad to the pilot, who was gradually losing consciousness, notwithstanding that the German aeroplane was persistently attacking. The valuable report supplied by this officer is as detailed and complete for the last as it is for the first part of the reconnaissance.
The original recommendation by Lieutenant-Colonel C.J. Burke (Officer Commanding 2nd Wing, RFC) dated 8 June 1915 is worth quoting; it appeared (edited) in Aeroplane of 4 February 1933.
"I have the honour to bring to your notice the gallant conduct of Captain A.E. Borton yesterday. When a long way from our lines he was overtaken by a hostile machine that was greatly superior to his both in climbing power and speed. Almost immediately Captain Borton was very badly wounded through the neck and jaw and the machine became out of control. He apparently pulled himself together by a tremendous effort and regained control. The situation he was then in might strike terror into the bravest. He was badly wounded, bleeding terribly without ability to stop it. The hostile machine could with impunity fire at him when it liked and he was miles from home...Even if [sic, "Only if ?"] he was not hit again could he hope to have strength to last until he reached the British lines, or would loss of blood do what his enemy wanted ? If ever there appeared a hopeless and defenceless position, this was one.
"It is a marvellous thing that in his condition he could follow his course, but he doggedly stuck to it. The gallant conduct and devotion of this officer cannot be brought out in a report, but after the most careful thought and consideration, it forces itself on me that he is worthy of the highest reward and I have the honour to submit that he be rewarded with the Victoria Cross."
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5 March 2002, 08:43 AM
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#62 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,612
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Thanks, Hugh. That is an eye-opener; certainly the VC (and MoH) has been awarded for less.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
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5 March 2002, 08:46 AM
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#63 (permalink)
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Observer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 68
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I read in the UK Daily Telegraph, there was consideration given to giving the VC to two S.A.S. soldiers out in Afghanistan. They may not get the medal because their actions were not witnessed by Officers. The first soldier was in a small unit that attacked some taliban terrorists in a cave complex. The patrol was being beaten back by weight of numbers when the soldier jumped up and led an almost suicidal charge, causing the terrorists to depart. The second action was a lone soldier who called up an air strike on his own position as the terrorists were closing in on him. By some miracle both soldiers survived. I am not sure if they are getting any award.
Years after the Great War, VC controversy lives on
Old Bill
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5 March 2002, 01:12 PM
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#64 (permalink)
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Observer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mojacar
Posts: 46
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Old Bill
There has been quite an extensive discussion on the Message Forum at the Victoria Cross Reference web site about the possible award of VCs to SAS members in Afghanistan, and the pros and cons of such awards being made. The question of witnesses is not the only potential bar to these awards as you will see if you check it out.
It is at: http://www.chapter-one.com/vc
Regards
Liz
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6 March 2002, 05:24 AM
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#65 (permalink)
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Observer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 68
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Liz
Many thanks for that link. I was not aware of the sites existance. I had a brief scan through it and read the forum discussion of the possible VC award in Afghanistan. It is an excellent site. I shall visit that one again.
Old Bill
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6 March 2002, 05:26 AM
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#66 (permalink)
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Observer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 68
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Liz
Many thanks for that link. I was not aware of the sites existance. I had a brief scan through it and read the forum discussion of the possible VC award in Afghanistan. It is an excellent site. I shall visit that one again.
Old Bill
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6 March 2002, 11:20 AM
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#67 (permalink)
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 300
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BIGSWORTH, Arthur Wellesley, Squadron Commander, Royal Naval Air Service - unit ? - Distinguished Service Order - awarded as per London Gazette dated 13 September 1915. Biographical details from Who's Who in Aviation, 1928 (London, Airways Publications, 1928, copy consulted in Canada Air Museum, Ottawa) and Aeroplane, 5 December 1928. Born in Croydon, London, 27 March 1885; educated by private tutor. Entered Royal Naval Reserve as Midshipman, 1903; Acting Sub-Lieutenant, 1909; Acting Lieutenant, 1911. Learned to fly on a Bristol biplane at Salisbury Plain ( Royal Aero Club Certificate No.396 dated 21 January 1913). In April 1913 he was placed on Supplementary List of the Royal Navy and seconded to RNAS as a Flying Officer. Appointed Flight Commander, July 1914. Went overseas in September 1914. In March 1915 he was commended for good work, notably an attack on German troops massing, and for locating a heavy gun at Leffinge. Promoted Squadron Commander, May 1915 and in the same month took a distinguished part in attack by aircraft from Dunkirk on a Zeppelin patrol; from an Avro he dropped four 20-pound bombs onto LZ.39 from 10,000 feet over Ostend; the airship regained its shed at Evere severely damaged and with one crewman dead. Who's Who claimed he was thus "first officer to drop bombs on a Zeppelin (May 17, 1915) and to destroy a submarine with bombs (August 25, 1915)" - the latter probably inaccurate (see citation). War in the Air, Volume 2, described the action, stating he piloted a Henry Farman to Zeebrugge, surprised the sub on the surface six miles northwest of Ostend; two of his 65-pound bombs appeared to make direct hits. Appointed Wing Commander, December 1916 and posted to command in Home Waters (see Bar to DSO). On formation of RAF appointed Lieutenant-Colonel; created CMG, January 1919 "in recognition of distinguished services during the war". Promoted to Acting Colonel, May 1919 while commanding a Group; awarded AFC, June 1919; secured permanent commission in the RAF, August 1919 as Wing Commander. Posted to Malta, September 1919; took over Armament and Gunnery School, Eastchurch, July 1920; promoted Group Captain, January 1923; in March 1923 appointed to command RAF in the Mediterranean. Restored to Home Establishment, August 1925 and posted to command RAF Training Base, Leuchars. To Headquarters, Coastal Area, 11 November 1929 (Chief Staff Officer)..
For his services in destroying single-handed a German submarine on the morning of 26th August 1915, by bombs dropped from an aeroplane. Squadron Commander Bigsworth was under heavy fire from the shore batteries and from the submarine whilst manoeuvring for position. Nevertheless, displaying great coolness, he descended to 500 feet, and after several attempts was able to get a good line from dropping the bombs with full effect.
NOTE: Aeroplane of 1 September carried the following including caustic queries by C.G. Grey about awards in general and how the Victoria Cross seemed to be granted or withheld in capricious fashion:
The Secretary of the Admiralty made the following announcement on August 26th:-
Squadron Commander Arthur W. Bigsworth, R.N., has destroyed single-handed a German submarine this morning by bombs dropped from an aeroplane . The submarine was observed to be completely wrecked and sank off Ostend.
It is not the practice of the Admiralty to publish statements regarding the losses of German submarines, important though they may have been, in cases where the enemy has no other source of information as to the time and place at which these losses have occured.
In the case referred to above, however, the brilliant feat of Squadron Commander Bigsworth was performed in the immediate neighbourhood of the coast in occupation of the enemy, and the position of the sunken submarine has been located by a German destroyer.
This communique is complicated by a later German communique which denies that the submarine was sunk. It is not the custom of German official communiques (as distinct from their wireless messages) to lie, so that one is left somewhat in doubt until the Admiralty makes a more circumstantial statement. However, in the event of the information proving exact, what is the adequate reward for the pilot ? If one Zeppelin is worth a VC, and one submarine is worth a dozen Zeppelins as a weapon, if not as a scout, what decoration can be given ?
In any case, Commander Bigsworth is to be congratulated for another good piece of work, of which he has a very large amount to his credit already.
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