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Dan_San_Abbott · 11 June 2006, 04:11 PM

Gentlemen:
1. MvR scored his 67th victory on 20 March 1918, flying Fok.DR.I 477/17 while at Awoingt the forward landing field. This is the first record of MvR flying DR.I 477/17. Sorry guys, I just got out of the hospital that day.
2. Fok.DR.I 477/17 was accepted in most likely early February 1918. Fok.Dr.I
461, 462 an 463 were accepted at the end of January 1918. Fokker Flugzeugwerke Acceptance sheets for February and March are missing.
3. Fok.DR.I 425/17 was accepted on 8 January 1918. My estimate from acceptance to delivery at the Armee Flugpark would be 10 to 14 days.
4. The color of the various accepted fabric samples, all are dark red, not the bright red seen on the lower wing or fuselage cross fields. I am in complete agreement that when Dr.I 477/17 and Dr.I 425 were overpainted, it was a uniform dark red as I had previously stated, a mix of vermillion and carbon-black. All current photos of the crossfield the red is bright. The upper wing Cross-field at the Imperial War Museum in 1972 was dark red and matched the color of my piece of fabric.
Other samples are held in the Australian Collection matched my Fabric sample.
All were dark red.
5. All the photos attributed to Fok.DR.I 425/17 are in actuality Fok.DR.I 477/17. All the photos of of the all red Fokker DR.I taken at LeChelle with the triangular defect in the finsh below the cockpit on the left side are of
Fok.DR.I 477/17. All the photos of the all red DR.I in the aircraft line-up at the LeChelle Airfield are of Fok.DR.I 477/17.
The only all red DR.I that MvR flew in operations at LeChelle Airfield was Fok.DR.I 477/17.
6. The rudder was repainted white on Dr.I 477/17 and Dr.I 425/17. It is a possibility the rudder was changed.
7. Langdon, you said there is a photo of DR.I 477/17 in a streaked finish. Where might I find that photo? If you are referring to Alex imrie's book, "The Fokker Triplane", page 65, photo 95, I don't agree with Alex and neither does Paul Leaman, Paul has identified that machine as Fok.Dr.I 486/17, (see page 155 of "Fokker Dr.I Triplane" I also refer you Gentlemen to Osprey/ AIRWAR 17, "GERMAN FIGHTER UNITS JUNE 1917-1918, by Alex Imrie, pages 12 & 13. The photo on the bottom of the page. This photo was taken the same day as the in "The Fokker Triplane", page 65. The upper wing of the all red machine in front of the fourth Bessaneau Hangar, and to the right of the observer is the upper wing of the DR.I that Imrie has claimed to be 477/17 with the "The upper surface of the top wing is overpainted Red". The panarama photo distinctly shows the uper surface to be olive brown streaked wit white cross fields and Iron Crosses. Not consistant. It is not DR.I
477/17, it is DR.I 486/17.
I have seen all the DR.I photos in the Peter Grosz and the A.E.Ferko collections, and I have not seen a photo of Dr.I 477/17 in streaked camouflage. Prior to the discovery of the blemish below the cockpit, a Ray Rimell discovery and has attributed to Fok.DR.I 425/17. He then observed all the photos previsely attributed to Dr.I 477/17 were declared to DR.I 425/17.
As far as I know, all the photos taken at LeChelle are of Dr.I 477/17, and the only established photos of Dr.I 425/17 are those taken at Bertangles Aerodrome after 21 April 1918.
Now I am going to ask you a question, "If, the all red Fok.DR.I with Iron Crosses in front of the Bessaneau Hangar at LeChelle on 26 March 1918 is Fok.DR.I 425/17 and also photographed in the aircraft lineups prior to the move to Cappy on 12 April 1918, why did MvR not fly it on operations?
8. MvR scored victories flying DR.I 477/17 on 20 March,#67, 27 March to 5 April, #69 to 75 victories. Last flew 477/17 on 11 April 1918. At no time during this period did he make a claim accredited to Dr.I 425/17.
I want you to think about it rationally.
It is possible that he flew it the first time between 12 and 19 April 1918. My opinion is that during Dr.I 425/17 was overpainted red and he flew it operationally for the first time on 19 April 1918 and scored a double victory.
Dave, I am not all together sure that all of the readers here think you were writing a probable scenario??
I think I have answered all the questions.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

11 June 2006, 04:11 PM	#53 (permalink)
Dan_San_Abbott Forum Ace of Aces Contributor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ceres, California Posts: 7,961	Corrections: Gentlemen: 1. MvR scored his 67th victory on 20 March 1918, flying Fok.DR.I 477/17 while at Awoingt the forward landing field. This is the first record of MvR flying DR.I 477/17. Sorry guys, I just got out of the hospital that day. 2. Fok.DR.I 477/17 was accepted in most likely early February 1918. Fok.Dr.I 461, 462 an 463 were accepted at the end of January 1918. Fokker Flugzeugwerke Acceptance sheets for February and March are missing. 3. Fok.DR.I 425/17 was accepted on 8 January 1918. My estimate from acceptance to delivery at the Armee Flugpark would be 10 to 14 days. 4. The color of the various accepted fabric samples, all are dark red, not the bright red seen on the lower wing or fuselage cross fields. I am in complete agreement that when Dr.I 477/17 and Dr.I 425 were overpainted, it was a uniform dark red as I had previously stated, a mix of vermillion and carbon-black. All current photos of the crossfield the red is bright. The upper wing Cross-field at the Imperial War Museum in 1972 was dark red and matched the color of my piece of fabric. Other samples are held in the Australian Collection matched my Fabric sample. All were dark red. 5. All the photos attributed to Fok.DR.I 425/17 are in actuality Fok.DR.I 477/17. All the photos of of the all red Fokker DR.I taken at LeChelle with the triangular defect in the finsh below the cockpit on the left side are of Fok.DR.I 477/17. All the photos of the all red DR.I in the aircraft line-up at the LeChelle Airfield are of Fok.DR.I 477/17. The only all red DR.I that MvR flew in operations at LeChelle Airfield was Fok.DR.I 477/17. 6. The rudder was repainted white on Dr.I 477/17 and Dr.I 425/17. It is a possibility the rudder was changed. 7. Langdon, you said there is a photo of DR.I 477/17 in a streaked finish. Where might I find that photo? If you are referring to Alex imrie's book, "The Fokker Triplane", page 65, photo 95, I don't agree with Alex and neither does Paul Leaman, Paul has identified that machine as Fok.Dr.I 486/17, (see page 155 of "Fokker Dr.I Triplane" I also refer you Gentlemen to Osprey/ AIRWAR 17, "GERMAN FIGHTER UNITS JUNE 1917-1918, by Alex Imrie, pages 12 & 13. The photo on the bottom of the page. This photo was taken the same day as the in "The Fokker Triplane", page 65. The upper wing of the all red machine in front of the fourth Bessaneau Hangar, and to the right of the observer is the upper wing of the DR.I that Imrie has claimed to be 477/17 with the "The upper surface of the top wing is overpainted Red". The panarama photo distinctly shows the uper surface to be olive brown streaked wit white cross fields and Iron Crosses. Not consistant. It is not DR.I 477/17, it is DR.I 486/17. I have seen all the DR.I photos in the Peter Grosz and the A.E.Ferko collections, and I have not seen a photo of Dr.I 477/17 in streaked camouflage. Prior to the discovery of the blemish below the cockpit, a Ray Rimell discovery and has attributed to Fok.DR.I 425/17. He then observed all the photos previsely attributed to Dr.I 477/17 were declared to DR.I 425/17. As far as I know, all the photos taken at LeChelle are of Dr.I 477/17, and the only established photos of Dr.I 425/17 are those taken at Bertangles Aerodrome after 21 April 1918. Now I am going to ask you a question, "If, the all red Fok.DR.I with Iron Crosses in front of the Bessaneau Hangar at LeChelle on 26 March 1918 is Fok.DR.I 425/17 and also photographed in the aircraft lineups prior to the move to Cappy on 12 April 1918, why did MvR not fly it on operations? 8. MvR scored victories flying DR.I 477/17 on 20 March,#67, 27 March to 5 April, #69 to 75 victories. Last flew 477/17 on 11 April 1918. At no time during this period did he make a claim accredited to Dr.I 425/17. I want you to think about it rationally. It is possible that he flew it the first time between 12 and 19 April 1918. My opinion is that during Dr.I 425/17 was overpainted red and he flew it operationally for the first time on 19 April 1918 and scored a double victory. Dave, I am not all together sure that all of the readers here think you were writing a probable scenario?? I think I have answered all the questions. Blue skies, Dan-San