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Originally Posted by Taz
The only description we have of 477/17 colors is from MvR himself who describes it as similar to 127/17 and early 152/17 color schemes and Alex Imrie's photo # 95 bears that out. Note in photo #95, Alex notes the aircraft was undergoing a change in national markings to Balkenkreuze which nearly rules out the all-red Lechelle aircraft being 477/17. That aircraft was all red with original style crosses and reduced white cross fields. Photo #95 shows an aircraft with solid painted upper wing, cowl, wheels, and struts (presumably red), streaked middle and lower wing, and streaked fuselage side. Exactly as MvR described it. Rudder and fuselage crosses had already been converted although the bottom wing crosses had not. Also note that none of the aircraft in the background of photo #95 have had their crosses converted yet, indicating this aircraft had a high priority for being converted (MvR's aircraft?).
Taz
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Taz ,
I have no doubt the plane undergoing the cross change with what appears to be a overpainted upper wing usually identified as 477/17 is not the all red plane with iron crosses,the pictures were taken the same day on the same airfield and Dan San mentions there is a picture that shows the wings of both aircraft at the same time. I do not have the picture Dan San mentions here but he states from the angle mentioned it was taken you can see the wing is not red but factory streaked, if you have this picture please post it. If you believe 477/17 was painted with at least a red wing this can not be the plane.
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Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott
7. Langdon, you said there is a photo of DR.I 477/17 in a streaked finish. Where might I find that photo? If you are referring to Alex imrie's book, "The Fokker Triplane", page 65, photo 95, I don't agree with Alex and neither does Paul Leaman, Paul has identified that machine as Fok.Dr.I 486/17, (see page 155 of "Fokker Dr.I Triplane" I also refer you Gentlemen to Osprey/ AIRWAR 17, "GERMAN FIGHTER UNITS JUNE 1917-1918, by Alex Imrie, pages 12 & 13. The photo on the bottom of the page. This photo was taken the same day as the in "The Fokker Triplane", page 65. The upper wing of the all red machine in front of the fourth Bessaneau Hangar, and to the right of the observer is the upper wing of the DR.I that Imrie has claimed to be 477/17 with the "The upper surface of the top wing is overpainted Red". The panarama photo distinctly shows the uper surface to be olive brown streaked wit white cross fields and Iron Crosses. Not consistant. It is not DR.I
477/17, it is DR.I 486/17.
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Dave W.
In your post you mentioned you now believe the rudder was simply over painted yes? If I am wrong please let me know. If so look at the picture Langdon has posted of the rear view of 425/17s wreck. Look at the torn edges of the white material of the rudder, there is no red there. I do not believe this rudder was ever red.
Langdon,
You mention there may be remains of the rudder in the IWM. If anyone had pictures of this material it would end the discussion for good(yeah right
). If the rudder material had
no red under the white but had a Iron cross under the strait cross it would prove it was not the "V" plane because the "V" plane is pictured at a time when other planes are already undergoing cross changes to the strait crosses so the would be no reason to paint a early iron cross before a later cross was added if the rudder had been recovered as you state may be the case.
If the material shows no sign of red or iron cross under the white but just the later strait cross then the argument for a repaired and recovered would be proven.
Now who has a picture of the rudder material
.
CW