[Langdon]

RAGIII,

1. Ed Ferko states roughly that the numbers under the wings and on the struts are too indistinct to be certain of any positive identification of 477/17//486/17.

I cannot say I have tried to do this as I do not have a first generation copy of the print but having said that I also believe Taz is unbiased in his approach (I'm not suggesting you are casting aspersions), as far as I understand he and Dan-San are good friends as so I believe if he's willing to say he positively identified the works number then that confirms Alex Imrie's work which I believe to be conservative. Taz scanned the image to a huge size of 500mb, this makes the job of identification much easier than using a magnifying glass. But I concede people make mistakes.

3. GvW states as Ferko, that there is no proof of the identity of 477/17. He also believes that 425/17 is the all Red Tripe.

I agree he gives no opinion either way but provides a precise of the various opinions. The caption on the photo claiming it was MvRs triplane is a strong piece of evidence in itself combined with the solid colour on the upper wing. I must say that apart from 425/17 & 477/17 I have not noticed any other aircraft in the LeChelle line-up with over-painted upper wings (prior to the cross changes).

5. Lehmann believes that 477 is 486.


I hadn't noted that, unfortunately he also has Hemer's as 425 so I think there was some confusion there. He shows the early shots of what I believe to be 425/17 as 477/17 but the later shot showing the aircraft adorned with Balkenkreuse as 425/17. The artwork of 425/17 has the same paintwork damage to the port side of the cockpit as the aircraft he's identified as 477/17 which is obviously the same aircraft.

1. Although many state that the identity of 477/486 is questionable, they still believe that the all RED triplane is 425/17. So identifying for certain that the bird in question is 486/17 may shift a little to DSA, it would not be conclusive as to eliminating 425/17 as the all Red triplane


Correct and I also agree with your point concerning the first aircraft to have its cross change applied, I actually wrote to Dave Watts about this yesterday but unfortunately it is not conclusive only logical.

To me much of the upper wing looks solid color, again in the distance! Finally, We know that MvR had at least 2 aircraft in this photo (Undisputed) 127/17 and 425/17 or 477/17.

477/17 has to be there as he's scoring victories on it. This statement will probably set Dan-San off on another "It's the only red triplane at LeChelle" but we know 425/17 is already one of MvR's personal aircraft as it is modified with the narrow bordered cross (let alone it not having standard upper-surface camouflage) and is painted all red, this (narrowing of the cross border) would not have been carried out from the original factory style after the move to LeChelle because we can see the photos of them converting the crosses to the latter style soon after their arrival there (Alex Imrie puts the change in crosses at late March, others suggest by the 6 April but even if 425/17 had its crosses modified to the narrow bordered type at LeChelle it still puts the aircraft there at the beginning).

This is another point that needs adding to the list above in favour of the aircraft being 425/17. It also disproves much of Dan-San's theory that 425/17 did not arrive until the 19 April or as he later conceeded the 12 April at the earliest. If this were true it would never have had its crosses modified to the outdated thin bordered variety as the rest of the Jasta had already been converted.

It's interesting stuff.
Langdon