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Langdon · 20 June 2006, 01:18 AM

Dan-San,

After his 65th victory on 20 March 1918, Fok.DR.I 152/17 was dissassembled at Avenes-le-Sec and shipped to the Zeughaus in Berlin. It was painted all red at the Zeughaus.

According to his combat report it was the 66th victory on the 18th!

I'm not interested in a date you have seen in a book, if you are certain of this I want to see the source material otherwise you are guessing.

Can you provide the official document please that confirms that it was disassembled and transported on this date?

Also please show me the evidence that proves that the aircraft was painted red in the museum. I'm surprised that their staff were such poor tradesmen. Also it's interesting that after they painted the aircraft they took it to an airfield to photograph it yet they didn't bother repairing the torn rudder fabric.

Have you given up quoting Imrie and moved to Leaman? Strange as some months ago you were attacking him for misquoting and then accusing him of lying to cover his tracks. As far as I can tell Paul's book is a collection of all the information he has collected on the Dr.I. I believe much of his description of photos comes from the work of others, if you look through all the works that have been done on the Dr.I then I'm sure you will find a convenient quote (maybe you had a hand in his work on 425/17 and 477/17? Wouldn't that be funny if you were quoting from your own work).

The best work I believe has been done by Alex Imrie. He was the one who discovered the identity of the aircraft in the photo we now know to be 152/17. That aircraft was obviously painted all red in the field, the problem with that is it does not fit your theory. I understand you are a bit sore with Alex Imrie over his purposely putting Kirchstein’s white and black striped Dr.I on the cover of his book as you had published some drawn out analysis about the stripes on Udet’s Dr.I (same air-plane) being light blue and red when in fact this was another fantasy of yours.

Fok.DR.I 486/17. See Dave Watts photo post #118 . The upper wing of Fok.DR.I can be seen to the right of the observer. The upper wing is in streaked camouflage, a light streak is visible to the left of the right hand white crossfield. The Iron crosses and the white crossfields have not been brought up to standard on the date (Alex Imrie caption) of 26 March 1918.

That is fine for 486/17 but the photo confirmed by its works number as 477/17 has its top wing painted a solid dark colour, take a look Dan its hard to miss.

Dr.I 152/17 did not participate in the March Offensive, it had been shipped out on 18 March 1918, therefore it was never at LeChelle airfield.

You've changed dates from the 20th (see above)! Must have been a busy day, on this day MvR shoots down his 66th victory, a Sopwith Camel in this aircraft at 11.15, so you suggest he gets back to base they dismantle the aircraft and ship it out that afternoon? I want to see the source material because I think you are basing your theory on someones quote that 152/17 was sent to Berlin sometime after this date (because it obviously wasn't before) when the fact is its markings prove that the date was actually weeks later.

Dan-San, in your opinion where and when was 425/17 painted all red with narrow bordered Iron crosses?

The "regular" machine was Dr.I 477/17 and was painted all red as stated by the "contempory war coorespondeces", and is the machine in front of the fourth Besoneau Hangar at LeChelle Airfield.

I'm sure MvR had a better idea of how his plane was painted than you do (by the way are you going to post your translations of his comabt reports?). The contemporary war correspondence probably were looking at 425/17 or 152/17.

Harri Huopainen,

As far as I know there is no phisical evidence to show that it did have its weights table stencilling but I think its safe to assume that it would have. I believe this was an official requirement. The fabric with the datum line was from the starboard side I think.

Langdon

20 June 2006, 01:18 AM	#133 (permalink)
Langdon Forum Ace Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 753	Dan-San, After his 65th victory on 20 March 1918, Fok.DR.I 152/17 was dissassembled at Avenes-le-Sec and shipped to the Zeughaus in Berlin. It was painted all red at the Zeughaus. According to his combat report it was the 66th victory on the 18th! I'm not interested in a date you have seen in a book, if you are certain of this I want to see the source material otherwise you are guessing. Can you provide the official document please that confirms that it was disassembled and transported on this date? Also please show me the evidence that proves that the aircraft was painted red in the museum. I'm surprised that their staff were such poor tradesmen. Also it's interesting that after they painted the aircraft they took it to an airfield to photograph it yet they didn't bother repairing the torn rudder fabric. Have you given up quoting Imrie and moved to Leaman? Strange as some months ago you were attacking him for misquoting and then accusing him of lying to cover his tracks. As far as I can tell Paul's book is a collection of all the information he has collected on the Dr.I. I believe much of his description of photos comes from the work of others, if you look through all the works that have been done on the Dr.I then I'm sure you will find a convenient quote (maybe you had a hand in his work on 425/17 and 477/17? Wouldn't that be funny if you were quoting from your own work). The best work I believe has been done by Alex Imrie. He was the one who discovered the identity of the aircraft in the photo we now know to be 152/17. That aircraft was obviously painted all red in the field, the problem with that is it does not fit your theory. I understand you are a bit sore with Alex Imrie over his purposely putting Kirchstein’s white and black striped Dr.I on the cover of his book as you had published some drawn out analysis about the stripes on Udet’s Dr.I (same air-plane) being light blue and red when in fact this was another fantasy of yours. Fok.DR.I 486/17. See Dave Watts photo post #118 . The upper wing of Fok.DR.I can be seen to the right of the observer. The upper wing is in streaked camouflage, a light streak is visible to the left of the right hand white crossfield. The Iron crosses and the white crossfields have not been brought up to standard on the date (Alex Imrie caption) of 26 March 1918. That is fine for 486/17 but the photo confirmed by its works number as 477/17 has its top wing painted a solid dark colour, take a look Dan its hard to miss. Dr.I 152/17 did not participate in the March Offensive, it had been shipped out on 18 March 1918, therefore it was never at LeChelle airfield. You've changed dates from the 20th (see above)! Must have been a busy day, on this day MvR shoots down his 66th victory, a Sopwith Camel in this aircraft at 11.15, so you suggest he gets back to base they dismantle the aircraft and ship it out that afternoon? I want to see the source material because I think you are basing your theory on someones quote that 152/17 was sent to Berlin sometime after this date (because it obviously wasn't before) when the fact is its markings prove that the date was actually weeks later. Dan-San, in your opinion where and when was 425/17 painted all red with narrow bordered Iron crosses? The "regular" machine was Dr.I 477/17 and was painted all red as stated by the "contempory war coorespondeces", and is the machine in front of the fourth Besoneau Hangar at LeChelle Airfield. I'm sure MvR had a better idea of how his plane was painted than you do (by the way are you going to post your translations of his comabt reports?). The contemporary war correspondence probably were looking at 425/17 or 152/17. Harri Huopainen, As far as I know there is no phisical evidence to show that it did have its weights table stencilling but I think its safe to assume that it would have. I believe this was an official requirement. The fabric with the datum line was from the starboard side I think. Langdon Last edited by Langdon; 20 June 2006 at 01:24 AM.