The Aerodrome Forum - View Single Post - July-Dec 1917

RussGannon · 2 June 2009, 10:12 PM

Steve & Bristol

Quite a bit of water has passed under this particular bridge since I've had a chance to dangle my hook.

A point on numbers over the Ypres salient July - Nov 17. HA Jones in 'War in the Air Vol IV' with assistance of Reicharchive showed that there were 840 'Allied' aircraft arrayed against 600 German for most of the air battle betwwen La Bassee and Belgian coast. Of the latter some 200 were fighters. Indeed 24 of the German's then 43 Jadgstafflen were employed over the salient.

Pointedly however we should not get too carried away with the notion of these German units suffering in their Albatros DV's & Pfalz at the hands of SE5's Camel's & Bristols. These types were only gradualy coming into the line. Units like 1 Sqn & 29 Sqn soldired on with their Nieports, 54 & 66 Sqn with their Pup's, 32 Sqn with their DH5's, 1 Naval with their Sopwith Triplanes and 19 & 23 sqn's with their SPAD VII's - all of which the Albatros & Pfalz had a destinct fire power & horsepower advantage as well as the home ground advantage.

As to elite units - again too much is made of JG 1 as an elite unit. Jasta 10 was a mediocre unit both before and after Voss. And even the much hyped Jasta 11 was only an average performer over the salient. The best performers were Js 26, Js 36, Js 6, Js 4 & Js 18 (when under Berthold).

My view is that too much is made of Jadgstafflen performance - if they achieved their suuccess fighting over the British side, then they would truly deserve thee acolades that are so readily heaped on them. Of course they did not and I feel a more balanced view of the air war is required.

In an earlier post, note was made of the hopeless of the RFC's losses over Arras in the Spring - but again we must not look at the air fighting in isolation to the ground war - the naive body count appraisal so popular particularly with Germanophiles which leads to the flawed reasoning that as the Germans shot down 4 for 1 so they were winning in the air!

A simple quote from the KTB (war diary) of II Guards Fusiliers fighting at Bullecourt on 7 May 17 probably sums up the true picture:

"Our airmen nowhere in sight and the English are as cheeky as the devil."

2 June 2009, 10:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
RussGannon Forum Ace Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Adelaide South Australia Posts: 778	Steve & Bristol Quite a bit of water has passed under this particular bridge since I've had a chance to dangle my hook. A point on numbers over the Ypres salient July - Nov 17. HA Jones in 'War in the Air Vol IV' with assistance of Reicharchive showed that there were 840 'Allied' aircraft arrayed against 600 German for most of the air battle betwwen La Bassee and Belgian coast. Of the latter some 200 were fighters. Indeed 24 of the German's then 43 Jadgstafflen were employed over the salient. Pointedly however we should not get too carried away with the notion of these German units suffering in their Albatros DV's & Pfalz at the hands of SE5's Camel's & Bristols. These types were only gradualy coming into the line. Units like 1 Sqn & 29 Sqn soldired on with their Nieports, 54 & 66 Sqn with their Pup's, 32 Sqn with their DH5's, 1 Naval with their Sopwith Triplanes and 19 & 23 sqn's with their SPAD VII's - all of which the Albatros & Pfalz had a destinct fire power & horsepower advantage as well as the home ground advantage. As to elite units - again too much is made of JG 1 as an elite unit. Jasta 10 was a mediocre unit both before and after Voss. And even the much hyped Jasta 11 was only an average performer over the salient. The best performers were Js 26, Js 36, Js 6, Js 4 & Js 18 (when under Berthold). My view is that too much is made of Jadgstafflen performance - if they achieved their suuccess fighting over the British side, then they would truly deserve thee acolades that are so readily heaped on them. Of course they did not and I feel a more balanced view of the air war is required. In an earlier post, note was made of the hopeless of the RFC's losses over Arras in the Spring - but again we must not look at the air fighting in isolation to the ground war - the naive body count appraisal so popular particularly with Germanophiles which leads to the flawed reasoning that as the Germans shot down 4 for 1 so they were winning in the air! A simple quote from the KTB (war diary) of II Guards Fusiliers fighting at Bullecourt on 7 May 17 probably sums up the true picture: "Our airmen nowhere in sight and the English are as cheeky as the devil." __________________ You don't need to follow anybody. You got to think for yourselves. Your'e all individuals. Brian of Nazereth