The Aerodrome Forum - View Single Post - Pflaz DIIIa

Gregvan · 12 September 2009, 11:44 AM

Hi Again,

Here's a few begrudging positive comments from the Allied side:

Gordon Taylor, a Sopwith Pup pilot in No. 66 Sqn RFC, wrote of an encounter on 31 August 1917 - which means he must have encountered some of the very first Pfalz D.III's at the front: “I watched them grow into the full shape of aeroplanes: all silver, but not the Albatros. The tail-plane was different; more rectangular than the spade shape of the Albatros…They looked lighter, and even slimmer than our usual opponents...They were the Pfalz Scouts. It was said that they weren’t as good as the Albatros. But they were obviously still much faster than our machines…”

Flight Commander E D Crundall of No. 210 Sqn, flying Camels, wrote on 4 July 1918: “I saw 5 Pfalz scouts over Armentières and Lille and about 3,000 feet above us. I decided to attack these enemy aircraft…The formation of Pfalz scouts were heading towards the north so when I got to about 50 yards from the hindermost one on the left I opened fire and my other pilots opened fire soon afterwards. Immediately all five Pfalz went into a very steep dive and soon left us a long way behind. The last we saw of them they were in good formation so we could not have done any serious damage.

Crundall, again, on 19 July 1918: “Led an OP of five Camels from Ghistelles to Ostende at 16,000 feet. When over Ostende we were taken completely by surprise because seven Pfalz scouts dived out of the sun and our first intimation of their presence was heavy bursts of machine gun firing. We swung round to the left in a steep climbing turn but after that one burst of heavy firing all the Pfalz dived steeply away. By the time we had recovered from this shock the Pfalz were a long way from us and we lost sight of them. On our return it was found that all our Camels had been hit by bullets but luckily no vital parts were hit.”

1/Lt. Donald S. Poler, an American who flew SE5a’s with No. 40 Squadron RAF, described a fight he had - on 27 June 1918: “At a 1:30 patrol we engaged two Huns. One, our first Fokker D.VII, and a Pfalz with wings painted red and fuselage yellow. I had a wonderful dogfight with the last down to 7,000 feet, away over the lines.…I fought with that fellow from about 14,000 feet down to 6,000 feet. Evidently the S.E.5 and that Pfalz were pretty closely matched (my emphasis - GVW). I’d try a maneuver and he’d try a maneuver and I’d try another maneuver and I couldn’t get any tighter and he couldn’t get any tighter to me. I’d pull away and get in a few shots without results. When we got down to 6,000 feet (and this is always the case up on the British sectors) the wind had carried us several miles over German held territory. …When we got down that far I decided I had better call it quits, so I beat it. Well, he wouldn’t let me beat it….all the time he was following he was firing. I looked back at the fellow and could see his bullets following me all the way. They looked like fountains of smoke. …I finally got away.”

Capt. Gwilym H. Lewis, No. 40 Sqn, described the same fight: “Two very sporty Hun scouts attacked a straggler of our formation. One with a very bright red top plane and yellow body, and the other a mottled brown. I turned round on them and had a shot at the brown lad, but this time had trouble with the engine. Bolo (Poler) had an excellent fight with the red fellow, who fought with equal determination, finally leaving each other at a few thousand feet."

I find the above account interesting because it seems to show that, as late as 27 June 1918, when Fokker D.VIIs were increasing in number, a good Pfalz D.IIIa pilot could still put up a great show against an SE5a.

A patrol of No. 56 Sqn SE5a’s led by Capt. W.S. Fielding-Johnson,MC, on 7 March 1918, engaged a formation of enemy scouts, concentrating on two Pfalz D.IIIa's which had become detached from their comrades. The SEs drove the Pfalz down over Cambrai, but Fielding-Johnson commented, ‘These were stunt pilots and it was impossible to get a shot at them. They were last seen at about 3000 feet over Cambrai under control.”

Even good old

Taffy Jones, whose books are full of lurid accounts of

Mick Mannock blasting 'dud' Pfalz aircraft out of the sky, could occasionally muster a scrap of respect for the occasional competent Pfalz pilot. From Tiger Squadron p. 107): “ The enemies were Pfalz scouts, well-flown and most aggressive. Quite a change to find Huns who will fight, I thought. …I thought this would be a good opportunity to give Nicky (Nixon) a chance to draw his first blood. I fired a few shots at him, then zoomed up to watch Nicky have a go… but when I had finished my zoom and had steadied myself to look for Nicky on the Hun’s tail, I saw to my horror quite the reverse picture. The Hun was pumping lead into Nicky, who was diving in a straight line away from him. Before I could help, my dear old machine with my mascot and poor old Nicky was enveloped in flames." Jones had lent the neophyte Lt.M "Nicky" Nixon his own favorite SE5a for the flight; the well-flown and aggressive Pfalz pilot in this case was Gefreiter Marat Schumm of Jasta 52, gaining his first victory.

Later on 1 June 1918, Jasta 52 again encountered No. 74 Squadron, led by Mannock. Jones wrote (again, the emphasis is mine): "The fight with Mick in the afternoon turned out to be the hottest dog-fight I’ve been in for a few days. Mick led A and C Flights on to seven Pfalz scouts, camouflaged dark, with white tails. It was cloudless where we fought – over Estaires, between 4:24 and 4:35 pm, at 13,000 feet.

“For ten minutes the ten S.E.5s engaged the seven Pfalz; and when the battle ended one enemy had gone down in flames, one had crashed, and one had gone down out of control -all to Mick’s guns -while we had lost our flight commander (Cairnes). A determined Pfalz got to within 25 yards of him and gave him the gun. His right wing was suddenly seen to break up, the nose of his S.E. dipped viciously, then downwards he spun at a terrific rate. I watched him for a short while, sickness overcoming me. It is a terrible thing to see a pal going to his death.”

Capt. W.J. Cairnes of No. 74 Sqn, a Flight CO with six victories, was shot down by Ltn

Paul Billik of Jasta 52. His SE5a C6443 broke up northeast of Estaires at 16.25. Billik claimed an SE5a east of Merville at 4:40 PM. Mannock shot down Ltn. Saint Mont of Jasta 52, who was KIA (he took to his parachute, but it tore); there were no other recorded Jasta 52 casualties.

12 September 2009, 11:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
Gregvan Forum Ace Contributor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Charles, Iowa Posts: 2,814	More - from the Allied side Hi Again, Here's a few begrudging positive comments from the Allied side: Gordon Taylor, a Sopwith Pup pilot in No. 66 Sqn RFC, wrote of an encounter on 31 August 1917 - which means he must have encountered some of the very first Pfalz D.III's at the front: “I watched them grow into the full shape of aeroplanes: all silver, but not the Albatros. The tail-plane was different; more rectangular than the spade shape of the Albatros…They looked lighter, and even slimmer than our usual opponents...They were the Pfalz Scouts. It was said that they weren’t as good as the Albatros. But they were obviously still much faster than our machines…” Flight Commander E D Crundall of No. 210 Sqn, flying Camels, wrote on 4 July 1918: “I saw 5 Pfalz scouts over Armentières and Lille and about 3,000 feet above us. I decided to attack these enemy aircraft…The formation of Pfalz scouts were heading towards the north so when I got to about 50 yards from the hindermost one on the left I opened fire and my other pilots opened fire soon afterwards. Immediately all five Pfalz went into a very steep dive and soon left us a long way behind. The last we saw of them they were in good formation so we could not have done any serious damage. Crundall, again, on 19 July 1918: “Led an OP of five Camels from Ghistelles to Ostende at 16,000 feet. When over Ostende we were taken completely by surprise because seven Pfalz scouts dived out of the sun and our first intimation of their presence was heavy bursts of machine gun firing. We swung round to the left in a steep climbing turn but after that one burst of heavy firing all the Pfalz dived steeply away. By the time we had recovered from this shock the Pfalz were a long way from us and we lost sight of them. On our return it was found that all our Camels had been hit by bullets but luckily no vital parts were hit.” 1/Lt. Donald S. Poler, an American who flew SE5a’s with No. 40 Squadron RAF, described a fight he had - on 27 June 1918: “At a 1:30 patrol we engaged two Huns. One, our first Fokker D.VII, and a Pfalz with wings painted red and fuselage yellow. I had a wonderful dogfight with the last down to 7,000 feet, away over the lines.…I fought with that fellow from about 14,000 feet down to 6,000 feet. Evidently the S.E.5 and that Pfalz were pretty closely matched (my emphasis - GVW). I’d try a maneuver and he’d try a maneuver and I’d try another maneuver and I couldn’t get any tighter and he couldn’t get any tighter to me. I’d pull away and get in a few shots without results. When we got down to 6,000 feet (and this is always the case up on the British sectors) the wind had carried us several miles over German held territory. …When we got down that far I decided I had better call it quits, so I beat it. Well, he wouldn’t let me beat it….all the time he was following he was firing. I looked back at the fellow and could see his bullets following me all the way. They looked like fountains of smoke. …I finally got away.” Capt. Gwilym H. Lewis, No. 40 Sqn, described the same fight: “Two very sporty Hun scouts attacked a straggler of our formation. One with a very bright red top plane and yellow body, and the other a mottled brown. I turned round on them and had a shot at the brown lad, but this time had trouble with the engine. Bolo (Poler) had an excellent fight with the red fellow, who fought with equal determination, finally leaving each other at a few thousand feet." I find the above account interesting because it seems to show that, as late as 27 June 1918, when Fokker D.VIIs were increasing in number, a good Pfalz D.IIIa pilot could still put up a great show against an SE5a. A patrol of No. 56 Sqn SE5a’s led by Capt. W.S. Fielding-Johnson,MC, on 7 March 1918, engaged a formation of enemy scouts, concentrating on two Pfalz D.IIIa's which had become detached from their comrades. The SEs drove the Pfalz down over Cambrai, but Fielding-Johnson commented, ‘These were stunt pilots and it was impossible to get a shot at them. They were last seen at about 3000 feet over Cambrai under control.” Even good old Taffy Jones, whose books are full of lurid accounts of Mick Mannock blasting 'dud' Pfalz aircraft out of the sky, could occasionally muster a scrap of respect for the occasional competent Pfalz pilot. From Tiger Squadron p. 107): “ The enemies were Pfalz scouts, well-flown and most aggressive. Quite a change to find Huns who will fight, I thought. …I thought this would be a good opportunity to give Nicky (Nixon) a chance to draw his first blood. I fired a few shots at him, then zoomed up to watch Nicky have a go… but when I had finished my zoom and had steadied myself to look for Nicky on the Hun’s tail, I saw to my horror quite the reverse picture. The Hun was pumping lead into Nicky, who was diving in a straight line away from him. Before I could help, my dear old machine with my mascot and poor old Nicky was enveloped in flames." Jones had lent the neophyte Lt.M "Nicky" Nixon his own favorite SE5a for the flight; the well-flown and aggressive Pfalz pilot in this case was Gefreiter Marat Schumm of Jasta 52, gaining his first victory. Later on 1 June 1918, Jasta 52 again encountered No. 74 Squadron, led by Mannock. Jones wrote (again, the emphasis is mine): "The fight with Mick in the afternoon turned out to be the hottest dog-fight I’ve been in for a few days. Mick led A and C Flights on to seven Pfalz scouts, camouflaged dark, with white tails. It was cloudless where we fought – over Estaires, between 4:24 and 4:35 pm, at 13,000 feet. “For ten minutes the ten S.E.5s engaged the seven Pfalz; and when the battle ended one enemy had gone down in flames, one had crashed, and one had gone down out of control -all to Mick’s guns -while we had lost our flight commander (Cairnes). A determined Pfalz got to within 25 yards of him and gave him the gun. His right wing was suddenly seen to break up, the nose of his S.E. dipped viciously, then downwards he spun at a terrific rate. I watched him for a short while, sickness overcoming me. It is a terrible thing to see a pal going to his death.” Capt. W.J. Cairnes of No. 74 Sqn, a Flight CO with six victories, was shot down by Ltn Paul Billik of Jasta 52. His SE5a C6443 broke up northeast of Estaires at 16.25. Billik claimed an SE5a east of Merville at 4:40 PM. Mannock shot down Ltn. Saint Mont of Jasta 52, who was KIA (he took to his parachute, but it tore); there were no other recorded Jasta 52 casualties. __________________ Greg VanWyngarden Last edited by Gregvan; 12 September 2009 at 12:06 PM.