The Aerodrome Forum - View Single Post

R Gannon · 2 October 2009, 06:56 PM

Mig 77

As a student of dogfights - MvR only scored two 'certain' victories against SE5's. One on 30 Nov 17 (flying a DV) and the other on 24 Mar 18 - in the latter at head of 25 of his much vaunted JG 1 against 9 SE5's - his was the only success!!!! In both cases SE's were from 41 Sqn and in both cases they made claims in return. Claims I would not discount.

For those who are interested. I thought for a bit of hype free illumination I would provide a brief over views / circumstances of Udet's victories against British aircraft. I'm sure it will prove interesting.

Enthusiasts will know Udet after serving with Jasta 15 was posted to Jasta 37 on the British sector in Aug 17.

His first claim came on 12 Aug 17 (misdated as 13 Aug in 'Fall of an Eagle') in a combat with 5 Nieuports of 40 Sqn - in this a Lt WD Cullen was forced down on the German side and taken prisoner - his fellow pilots under Capt Keen made 3 claims in return. Credit however was given to Uffz Helligers of Jasta 30 - indicating the 5 Nieuports flying an OP over the German side, had not only fought two Jasta's, but that Cullen had been driven down by two pilots - this was a common occurance. In 'Fall of an Eagle' there is a photo of Udet and his SF Obln Grasshoff standing in front of a 40 Sqn Nieuport which can only be that of Cullen.

His first success came on 14 Aug 17. In this a 5 strong bombing formation of 25 Sqn (DH4's) were attacked by upwards of 20 EA scouts on the return leg - Udet clearly dived on one 'Bristol' (sic) in a hit and run attack. The 'Bristol' began to smoke and then dived after Udet whereupon it broke up!!! This was DH4 A2159 - crew mia / kia. Udet's 7th Luftseige.

Udet's 8th Luftseige on 15 Aug 17 - his victim 43 Sqn Sopwith Strutter A8294.
43 Sqn's Strutters were sent off on low Special Missions in support of Canadian Corps attack (and capture) of Hill 70. According to Udet the Strutter flew low over his airfield Moncheaux in a straffing run - Udet imediately took to air and pursued 15km back to front line where the Strutter crashed just short of Front lines. Crew kia.

9th Lufseige was one of 6 DH4's from 55 Sqn (not 27 Sqn or 57 Sqn as some sources) on bombing raid deep in German lines to Raisnes. Js 37 went off in pursuit. it would appear that A7566 fired a green flair indicating engine failure and went down clearly with no option but to force land German side. Udet apparently attacked this lame duck killing the observer. According to Udet the Australian pilot (Lt Davyes) made poor impression, claiming he was a braggart, but one wonders if Davyes had actually objected about being shot up when he was clearly going to have to land - of course by shooting the DH4 up, Udet would get credit for victory!

10th - was either DH5 a9410 or A9409 who were both lost over German side on 17 Sep 17 when assailed by both Jasta 30 & Jasta 37.

I'll post more.

2 October 2009, 06:56 PM	#16 (permalink)
R Gannon Forum Ace Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 1,445	Resume of an Eagle Mig 77 As a student of dogfights - MvR only scored two 'certain' victories against SE5's. One on 30 Nov 17 (flying a DV) and the other on 24 Mar 18 - in the latter at head of 25 of his much vaunted JG 1 against 9 SE5's - his was the only success!!!! In both cases SE's were from 41 Sqn and in both cases they made claims in return. Claims I would not discount. For those who are interested. I thought for a bit of hype free illumination I would provide a brief over views / circumstances of Udet's victories against British aircraft. I'm sure it will prove interesting. Enthusiasts will know Udet after serving with Jasta 15 was posted to Jasta 37 on the British sector in Aug 17. His first claim came on 12 Aug 17 (misdated as 13 Aug in 'Fall of an Eagle') in a combat with 5 Nieuports of 40 Sqn - in this a Lt WD Cullen was forced down on the German side and taken prisoner - his fellow pilots under Capt Keen made 3 claims in return. Credit however was given to Uffz Helligers of Jasta 30 - indicating the 5 Nieuports flying an OP over the German side, had not only fought two Jasta's, but that Cullen had been driven down by two pilots - this was a common occurance. In 'Fall of an Eagle' there is a photo of Udet and his SF Obln Grasshoff standing in front of a 40 Sqn Nieuport which can only be that of Cullen. His first success came on 14 Aug 17. In this a 5 strong bombing formation of 25 Sqn (DH4's) were attacked by upwards of 20 EA scouts on the return leg - Udet clearly dived on one 'Bristol' (sic) in a hit and run attack. The 'Bristol' began to smoke and then dived after Udet whereupon it broke up!!! This was DH4 A2159 - crew mia / kia. Udet's 7th Luftseige. Udet's 8th Luftseige on 15 Aug 17 - his victim 43 Sqn Sopwith Strutter A8294. 43 Sqn's Strutters were sent off on low Special Missions in support of Canadian Corps attack (and capture) of Hill 70. According to Udet the Strutter flew low over his airfield Moncheaux in a straffing run - Udet imediately took to air and pursued 15km back to front line where the Strutter crashed just short of Front lines. Crew kia. 9th Lufseige was one of 6 DH4's from 55 Sqn (not 27 Sqn or 57 Sqn as some sources) on bombing raid deep in German lines to Raisnes. Js 37 went off in pursuit. it would appear that A7566 fired a green flair indicating engine failure and went down clearly with no option but to force land German side. Udet apparently attacked this lame duck killing the observer. According to Udet the Australian pilot (Lt Davyes) made poor impression, claiming he was a braggart, but one wonders if Davyes had actually objected about being shot up when he was clearly going to have to land - of course by shooting the DH4 up, Udet would get credit for victory! 10th - was either DH5 a9410 or A9409 who were both lost over German side on 17 Sep 17 when assailed by both Jasta 30 & Jasta 37. I'll post more. __________________ Our hearts so stout has got us fame For soon 'tis known from where we came Where'er we go they fear the name Of Garryowen in glory.