[FOKKERJ]

Greetings Hal Oele and Manfred Thiemeyer,

My intention is not offend the two of you or anyone else with what I am about to say. With that said, let's go.

Dear Manfred,

I am a little slow this morning and am not sure what it is exactly that you are saying here. Please bear with me.

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

Hi folks,

another important information around the Richthofen discussion...

Hal



"The 30th of April was notable for a change in German air fighting tactics. The fighter flights attached to the Arras Corps at Douai (3rd, 4th, 11th, and 33rd) were combined to form one group which could, as occasion demanded, operate as a massed fighting formation. This group, which made its first sweep on the morning of the 30th, was promptly named by us 'Richthofen's Circus'..." WAR IN THE AIR Vol.III, page 368

With nearly every modern Richthofen book you will find this information and because this statement is from "The history of the part played in the war by British air forces" it's a bible, often quoted in conjunction with this famous photograph of Jasta 11 at Roucourt. But is this statement true?
No!

We know that Jasta 3, 4, 11, and 33 were not a permanent Jagdstaffel as was JG.I. Was there an official designation for combined Fighter groups at this time?
I believe that the term "Richthofen's Flying Circus" was indeed conjured up to discribe JG.I and as a compliment or a derogatory description was in the perception of the individual. You can respect your foe even if it is your duty to eliminate them. To this day I believe that the attraction, then as now, was the colorful paint schemes of the individual machines of the Jasta (plural) in contrast to the "Drab" Olive Drab paint schemes of some of the Allies' machines. Also the respect due to any efficient fighting group.
I accept this and don't find it offensive.

Was there ever a "Red Baron" in Deutschland?
Obviously RvM wrote a book titled "Der Rote Flieger". I translate this as "The Red Flyer", Flyer interchangeable with Pilot, if wrong I am open to a correction here.

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

In the seventies, i had the good fortune to tape an interview with an eyewitness:
Ltn. Heinz Geiseler was Jastapilot with the quoted Jasta 33 and he scored on this memorable 30th of April his first victory. Meanwhile his opponents survived as "zur Landung gezwungen" with their FE2d at 0845 near Oppy, his victory was no official. As a "Prussian Cadet", he was wounded as a 17 year old Leutnant, and leader of the 10.Kompanie, I.R.60.
On the attached photograph he is 19 years of age (April 1917)

This is interesting information that I was previously unaware of and I am grateful for you sharing this and the accompanying fotografs. Perhaps some day you could help me with a Jasta Flieger of Jasta 52 that I have too little information on.

Was the F.E.2d's downing awarded credit to anyone else since Ltn. Heinz Geiseler did not recieve credit?

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

Some people may be grateful that I don't post the map "Order of Battle", showing the airfields of the Jastas, Schustas and Fliegerabteilungen based around Douai in April 1917.

I disagree, I think that most people would be grateful for any Maps that you are generous enough to share with us. Especially a Map of "the Jastas, Schustas and Fliegerabteilungen based around Douai in April 1917.".

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

Yes, I'm in doubt to post here. Is the Aerodrome the right place for serious research or is fancyful history in demand, to win a community?
Is this the trouble with the Web?

Manfred Thiemeyer

I believe that you have come to the right place to post this information.
It is unfortunate that there are "Popularity Contest" and the associated egos that come with these items of interest, but I believe that this is part of Human Nature and must be accepted as part of the rich dialogue that makes this possible. With out a community, there would be no one to share this information with.

Originally Posted by Hal Oele

Thanks again for sharing this information and these great fotografs of Ltn. Heinz Geiseler that he might not be forgotten.

Best Wishes, Jay aka FOKKERJ

P.S. Again, I believe that Manfred Thiemeyer should be reinstated as "A Member In Goodstanding" with full priviledges!
I believe that he is one of our best sources and possibly the best source from Germany.