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Gregvan · 10 October 2009, 06:33 PM

Hi All,

I'm just grateful that MT provided this information and the marvelous photos of Herr Geiseler. Thanks very much.

I am also interested in learning more about the inaccuracy of the description given in "The War in the Air".:

"This group, which made its first sweep on the morning of the 30th, was promptly named by us 'Richthofen's Circus'"

I presume that MT is stating that this "sweep" was not actually made on 30 April? I would be very interested to learn more, as I am one of those writers who has repeated this (erroneous, as it turns out?) statement.

As for the statement in the same source that 'this group...was promptly named by us 'Richthofen's Circus'", I have serious doubts about that too. I have long searched for the first use of this term in various contemporary diaries and letters of RFC personnel, and I'm still looking. I would bet that this nickname was first given to the red Albatrosse of Jasta 11, perhaps in mid to late April 1917, and did not specifically refer to a 'massed group' of four Jasta, but rather to the somewhat nebulous RFC concept of "Richthofen's Squadron".

Again, thanks to MT and Hal Oele for this information.

10 October 2009, 06:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
Gregvan Forum Ace of Aces Contributor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: St. Charles, Iowa Posts: 3,626	Hi All, I'm just grateful that MT provided this information and the marvelous photos of Herr Geiseler. Thanks very much. I am also interested in learning more about the inaccuracy of the description given in "The War in the Air".: "This group, which made its first sweep on the morning of the 30th, was promptly named by us 'Richthofen's Circus'" I presume that MT is stating that this "sweep" was not actually made on 30 April? I would be very interested to learn more, as I am one of those writers who has repeated this (erroneous, as it turns out?) statement. As for the statement in the same source that 'this group...was promptly named by us 'Richthofen's Circus'", I have serious doubts about that too. I have long searched for the first use of this term in various contemporary diaries and letters of RFC personnel, and I'm still looking. I would bet that this nickname was first given to the red Albatrosse of Jasta 11, perhaps in mid to late April 1917, and did not specifically refer to a 'massed group' of four Jasta, but rather to the somewhat nebulous RFC concept of "Richthofen's Squadron". Again, thanks to MT and Hal Oele for this information. __________________ Greg VanWyngarden Last edited by Gregvan; 10 October 2009 at 08:01 PM.