[R Gannon]

Manfred

Reference your post 130 - I'm not doubting Germany was up against it. I am just highlighting the point, time & again, that the present picture of German losses falls way short of the actual mark. Unless you have the original Jasta 11 KTB at your disposal, then you cannot emphatically claim no German's were shot down on 11 Apr 17 or any other date.

Sure the British overclaimed for a variety of fog of war issues which come part of the deal when you fight over enemy territory and the same applies to German 'jenseits' claims which made up 58 % of German claims. I cannot see why the Allied pilots should be penalised simply because they fought their air war over the German side. Even the lowly OOC is a victory because to be perfectly frank they represent German planes that quit fights - quit fights over their own side! And contrary to all the hype - whilst the German's were outnumbered in the bigger picture - fighting over their own side meant that they could almost always manipulate local superiority of numbers.

The weak point of lack of German numbers meant that whilst they could gang up on some hapless formations, a large number of Allied missions over the German side went unchallenged! There is a good account by Lt Charley of 54 Sqn who flew in the spring & summer of 1917 in his undergunned & under powered Sopwith Pup on countless escort missions for 22 Sqn to Cambrai and back - and whilst the likes of Js 2 & Js 5 made a fight of it on some occasions - the majority of missions however went unchallenged. Several time with Jasta formations shaddowing but for what ever reason not attacking! I find this difficult to rationalise from the German perspective - allowing free & unhindered enemy recon of ones rear areas.

I disagree that German Jastas flew with only 5 or so pilots. Check the good diaries like Strahle & Raech for that claim does not stand up. These diaries also show that Jastas very often flew in Jagdgruppe formations.

And you must also not be deluded by MvR's combat reports - I guarantee that when he states he is fling with only one or two other pilots; that he was flying part of the Lower Patrol of a Jasta 11 formation and when he states he was fling with five or six others; then he was leading the Upper Patrol - 300m behind & 300m above the Lower Patrol.

Manfred my interest is to present a fair & honest account of the air war free of all the myth & hype that has since been attached to it. And to give credit when credit is due and not to reserve it soley for one side.

Cheers Russ