Where did all those Liberty engines go?

[retread]

* *Reading about the JN-4 series by Curtiss I was surprised to see that their power plant never included the Liberty 400hp engine. Instead they carried the somewhat anemic Curtis OX-2 (90hp), OX-5 (100 hp) and the Hispano-Suiza 150hp. I know the US built a few D.H.10's which carried a couple of Liberty engines apiece, also that Curtiss started production of a two-seat fighter (Curtiss 18) which used a 400hp engine. Although as best as I can tell not a Liberty but produced by an outfit called Kirkham.
* So my question is two-fold-(A) Does anyone know if a Liberty was at anytime installed in a JN-4?(or was it just too big and/or overpowered for the airframe?) (B) Where did all those Liberty engines go off to if not in Jennys ?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Thanks

[FlyXwire]

Your probably right about the Liberty engine being too large/heavy for the Jenny even though pound for pound it had one of the highest horsepower to weight ratios of any aero engine of its time (of course I'd guess that at over twice the weight of an OX-5, excessive nose weight with offsetting CG in the Jenny would have been the adverse result).

As far as where all those engines went that didn't make it into D.H.4s, Vickers-Vimy bombers, and flying boats, or onto the market as Army Air Corps surplus.................well into rum-running speedboats!

Damn revenuers!!!

[Langdon]

Weldboy,

At least some of those engines made it to Australia fitted to the DH9a aircraft our RAAF operated. We have a nil hour Liberty engine in our museum.

Langdon

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Weldboy:
The Us Army and Us Navy specified that the Liberty engine be used in the designs for their services,i.e. F5L, Douglas Cruiser, Loening boats, Rum runner motor boats, American and russian tanks. The DH4m used by the US Mail service. It and all the Hisso engines were used in a lot of aircraft. The DH4 remained in the US Army service into the early thirties. (National Guard units.)
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[retread]

Thanks to all who responded. Yes, it seems they went everywhere and anywhere. Searching the internet the best info I could glean was that the US manufactured 20,478 Liberty 12 410hp engines during the war. (Did manufacturing stop at that point?).
It would be interesting to know how many of these found there way into US or at least allied aircraft during the conflict.
I had earlier mentioned the Kirkham engine. Charles B. Kirkham started the Kirkham Aeroplane & Motor Co. out of Savona New York. At some point he fell in with Curtiss and designed the Curtiss-Kirkham engine (K-12) rated at 375-400hp. Has anyone ever seen one of these? Curtiss has been described as someone who didn't let patent infringement stand in his way and I suspect it may have been much like the Liberty engine.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Weldboy:
The Kirkham K12 evolved into the Curtiss C12. The K12/C12 were designed and developed in competion to the Liberty. I my thinking the K12/C12 were superior to the Liberty,smaller frontal area, lighter in weight 705 lbs to Liberty's 844 lbs.
The C12 was laterdeveloped into the Curtiss D12 used in the Army and Navy fighters in the 1920s and early 30s, Army Curtiss Hawk series and Boeing PW9 and Navy's FB5.
The US goverment selected the Liberty over the Curtiss K12, most likely because the Liberty was a goverment project where the K12 would have involved licensing and payments to Curtiss for use of their design.(my opinion.)
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Shooter]

This is funny. About five years ago I had a friend who had an old displacement hull sailing rig (a two masted schooner IIRC) he kept at Margate, NJ when he was not working as a tower crane operator in Atlantic City (49.00 per hour in an Operating Engineers Union job). I only recall this because he showed me the engine that he used when becalmed. He said that it was a Liberty engine.

I always thought that the Liberty engine was an V-12 design. This one looked like an inline. I know that I was not paying much attention that day, but was the Liberty engine a V-12 or not?


Shooter sends

[retread]

The 12 cylinder was a V-type configuration. Although Liberty also produced small numbers of 4,6 and 8 cylinders models which may or may not of been inlines. I just don't know offhand. If they shared the fate of their larger more powerful brother they could have easily ended up inside the guts of a sailboat.

[Shooter]

Thank you, Weldboy. I didn't think it was a V-12, but I will be honest that I did not pay enough attention to it that I remember.


Shooter sends

[Langdon]

Shooter,

The Liberty 6 is an inline engine.