Fokker DrI from Dittmann collection

Hi all,
There are two veiws the same Fokker Dr I being inspected by five German Officers. Does anyone have any information about this aircraft and photo.
For my limited knowledge I would gess that it is a Jasta 12 plane as they were the only unit in JG2 that was still equiped with them. Ltn Buchner is on the left of the first photo and possibly Ltn Neckel next to him. Is it possible that this Dr I with its cheveron on the tailplane was Neckel's as prviously he had used this on the side of his Albatros DV and his first Fokker Dr I. Only a guess. would value other opinions.

yours stu

Image 2

[Laserlloyd]

stu:

Well, I haven't seen these before. I'm not sure about the unit based on the photo. It does look to me much later in the year of 1918 becouse of the style of the cross.

Posibley Dan-San Or Greg V. can help.

Please let me know if you have any other Dr.I photos.

Good luck.

Lloyd...

The officer on the right in the first photo is Buchner as can be seen by comparison with the photo below, from the same source. In Dr.I photo 2 he again appears next to the propeller. If you compare Dr.I photo 2 with Jasta 12 Dr.I's photo's from lmid 1918 , see Alex Imrie 'The Fokker Triplane'. You see that the white engine cowl takes on this dirty look towards the end of there life befour the Jasta became equiped with Fokker D.VII's.

your stu

[Gregvan]

Hello, Everyone,

Yes, I entirely agree with Stu. I think it's a very late Jasta 12 aircraft. Check out Imrie photo #147 on page 102 of "The Fokker Triplane" and you'll see how the white cowlings of Jasta 12 did indeed get very dirty, even resembling bare metal cowlings. In addition, Jasta 12 was painting more black and white (?) areas on the fuselage forward of the national insignia, in some cases over-painting the entire fuselage. There is an even better view of this line-up in "Die Koeniglich Preussischen Luftstreitkraefte 1884 bis 1918, Jet & Prop Chronik Spezial No. 4", by Joerg Mueckler, publisehd by VDM, on page 53.

I'm not sure this black-fuselaged Dr.I was flown by Neckel, however, as I believe he had left Jasta 12 to go to Jasta 13 by this time (he transferred on 18 May 1918, according to Rick Duiven). The chevron was a common leader's marking, especially on the tail, so maybe this was Schwartz's a/c or maybe even Buechner's (Schwartz is of course, a homonym for "schwarz", the German word for black...) ?? Who knows ??

I highly recommend the Dittmann website at www.flieger-album.de/

It's well worth a long and detailed look. Great stuff ! But remember to respect the copyright of the photos.

Greg VanWyngarden

Thanks Greg,

I agree with you that Neckel is probably not the best candidate as the pilot. I pose the suggestion that although Jasta 12 only started using blue, (in uniformity with the rest of JG 2) after it received its Fok. D.VII that maybe the dark colour could be blue. I see that the tonal range of the tail cross is similar to that on the fuselage and that would be a pointer to it being black, but it would be nice to see a blue Fokker Dr.I, If only in my head!
Thanks again
stu.

www.flieger-album.de/ is a great sight, would like to see more like them. Fuel’s the interest in my research.

[Gregvan]

Hello Stu,

I agree that the dark color could be a dark (Prussian) blue, as used on their Jasta 12 Fokker D.VIIs. It's an intriguing possibility. There is another photo, in the Ferko collection, which shows a Dr.I which may have been flown by the CO of Jasta 13, Ltn Wilhelm Schwartz, on 15 May 1918. It just MAY have had the blue fuselage and green nose of Jasta 13 (see page 138 of Leaman's Triplane book).

I "mispoke" when I said the Dittmann photos could be Schwartz' or Buechner's, of course - the material about Neckel had me thinking Jasta 13 instead of Jasta 12. I simply must stop typing these posts when I'm so tired !!

Keep up the good work, Stu.

Greg

thanks greg,

I don't have my notes or books with me as I'm in the process of moving house so I'm not sure who of the top of my head who were leader's of Jasta 12 from 18 May to August 1918.
Soderbaum posted way back on 6 march 2000 ( must commend the new archive system) that Hildebrandt took over as CO of Jasta 12. Can anyone confire or deny?

yours stu

[Rick]

Ltn. Robert Hildebrant was Jasta 12 C.O. from 18May18 to 13Jul18, then Becker to EOW.

Conversely, Ltn.d.R. Wilhelm Schwartz was Jasta 13 C.O. from 1May18 to 15Jun18 then Büchner to EOW. R.

Thanks Rick,

Imformation greatly received. Just one more photo from Dittman collection that i found interesting. Its Ltn Nekel with Buchner, With Nekel in the flying gear but sitting in Buchner Fokker D.VII. For the rest of this collection go see yourself.

yours
stu