Fokker E.V - D.VIII wing camouflage

[FlyingRazor]

Actually, Lyle that stab is from my Snake-n-Rabbit D8 that was lost at Topgun. Ray (Albatros) publish the photo for the first time. I'm not sure of the correct Jasta, although, the horizontal stripes match the photo. Also, at Dayton Greg and Doc looked at the tail and initial thought it was wrong but after a day out in the sun they concluded it's correct....

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Flyingrazor:
I sure would like to see a photo of the Fok.E.V you used for reference.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[greenknight]

Does anyone know if the subject of colors and finish of the E.V and D.VIII wing were part of the correspondence between Reinhold Platz and Mr. Swearingen, when Mr. Swearingen was building his reproduction?

I am aware that even if Platz made any statements about color, they may not have been entirely accurate recollections. From what I've read, although he remembered much about the airplane there were a few points ( such as wing spar configuration ) where he later corrected himself after being shown photographic evidence contrary to his memory. Understandable, after 40-50 years have passed.

It would be an interesting bit of data nevertheless. As I recall Mr. Swearingen's reproduction had a solid olive wing.

Thank you

[petie2nd]

Originally posted by greenknight@Dec 16 2003, 11:16 PM
[b] Does anyone know if the subject of colors and finish of the E.V and D.VIII wing were part of the correspondence between Reinhold Platz and Mr. Swearingen, when Mr. Swearingen was building his reproduction?

I'm on the road right now, but I still have an article from the Chicago Tribune magazine, in 1969, about Ed Swearingen's reproduction. I was in High School at the time, and our family doctor actually helped translate some of the correspondence with Herr Platz. I'll have to dig out the article when I get home.

As I remember, the wing was solid olive green.

Rich

[greenknight]

Thanks petie2nd.

I have an article by Mr. Swearingen, "Reinhold Platz and the D.VIII Reproduction", published in WWI Aero, No. 79, May 1980. This issue has a special focus on the wing of the E.V and D.VIII. Quite a bit of material was presented, but no reference to original colors (unless I've missed something).

So I'd be very interested to hear what your article has. I know I read another article on the Swearingen repro 20-25 years ago. I think it was in "Sport Flying" magazine or something like that, but at this point I can't recall too much of what was in it.

In the same issue of WWI Aero there is an article by Peter Bowers "The Fokker D.VIII Wing". It mentions that the 2 D.VIII's that were tested here in the US were examples built by Fokker in Holland AFTER the war.

Given the solid olive color schemes we see on at least some post-war Dutch D.VII biplanes, and also on American military airplanes of the period, I wonder if these 2 examples ( and maybe others? ) could have left the Dutch factory post-war with solid olive wings.

I guess what I'm ultimately curious about is whether the long accepted representation of the Parasol wing in solid olive came strictly from B&W photo interpretation, or had some other basis.

[VonHelton]

Did anyone stop to consider that early Razors might've been streaked, whereas later ones had solid color wings?

[jumpinjan]

I have the Swearingen article that appeared in Sport Flying. This is about the best color picture from the magazine, but it really doesn't say much:


Landon, I think I promised you a copy of the article. I have everything scanned & color balanced. I'll give you a link here soon.
Jan

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
The origin of the olive brown wing on the Fok.E.V/D.VIII was was the well known aviation artist, Peter Endsliegh Castle. Everybody assumed it was correct, inasmuch as the cowlings were olive brown.
In 1999, after reviewing the Fok.E.V photos in the A.E. Ferko Collection at the University of Texas, Dallas. I discovered the wing was in a streaked camouflage. After I got back, I went and looked at all the Fok.E.V/D.VIII and sure enough they were all in a streaked camouflage finish. I had a very sharp set of photographs of Fok.E.V 137/18 take at Le Bouget after the war and they showed the camouflage real well.
Following that revelation, I studied all the Fok.E.V photos I could find, and found at least six variation of the camouflage patterns.
I don't think the axle wing was finished in the streaked camouflage, the Fok.E.V/D.VIII wings were made by a Fokker subsiduari Perzina Piano Forte and were delivered to the Fokker factory finished and ready for installation on the fuselage. I think the axle wing was solid olive brown, the same as the engine hood and cowlings that Fokker built.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Langdon]

Hello,

I'm sorry but I do not have time to answer all of your questions properly but here are a few points. I do not believe we can really draw anything from the Platz letters, many people are expressing doubts concerning his role at the Fokker works, if he was the chief designer his memory was letting him down, he stated that the spars were parallel and that the ailerons used piano type hinges, on both counts he was wrong. I cannot remember any discussion on the paint scheme.

I doubt if any D.VIII wings were ever produced in Holland, I suspect the wings on the aircraft that Fokker supplied to the US Air Service would have been part of the stock he transferred from Germany at the end of the war. I also suspect these aircraft were painted in the USA and I have no doubt that all wartime production E.V - D.VIII aircraft were painted with streaky camouflage.

I agree with Dan-San that the undercarriage wing would have been painted in olive with no streaking. There is a very good factory photo of the V.25 taken from underneath the cockpit area looking forward over the undercarriage wing and it clearly shows that it was painted, but with no streaking (I have only inspected this photo recently).

I would like to give a belated acknowledgement to Dave Watts for the photo of the D.VIII wing undergoing testing that I used earlier in this thread, Dave, with a small amount of help from me, is compiling a book on Fokker factory photos which will be truly enlightening when it is released sometime in the future.

Dan-San, I would love to see copies of the E.V 137/18 photos if possible?

Happy Holidays,
Langdon

[VonHelton]

Originally posted by Langdon@Dec 10 2003, 10:48 PM
[b] Hello Glenn,

That model of yours sure is nice, well done, it is hard to tell from the real thing. I fully understand your use of the solid olive colour on the wing, it is a pity that the images I have presented here have not been more available in the past. It seems that many people use the services of researchers but never receive the supporting information, this is not a criticism of the researchers but possibly those wanting research to be undertaken should become more involved in the process as well? Possibly they are and I have the wrong impression.

Langdon

Excellent detective work, Langdon!

It's just this type of info that's needed to get to the truth.