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23 April 2004, 06:40 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Guest
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Hi. I've known about the aerodrome for a few years but just recently I've being using it for my WW1 research paper at USF.
So here's my question, using the Aircraft Statistics provided by this website I want to know how The French (just randomly chosen) Can produce 67,987 aircraft---- and Loose 52,640.......But then have 4,500 on the front lines in 1918....
Ok we've made almost 68000 airplanes but only have 4,500 on the front lines in 1918? And the 4500 is a much larger number than the 138 in 1914.
Is anyone else following me?
Where are the other aircraft? Hiding?
Please help me with this ASAP
Much thanks
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23 April 2004, 08:44 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 4,809
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The key is "front line aircraft." The others were training, liaison, aircraft pools, maintenace parks, etc, etc.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
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26 April 2004, 01:27 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
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Sniperking;
There are serious problems with the numbers listed for aircraft losses for Great Britain, France, Germany ,etc... My question is, What is the source of this data? For example Germay claims enemy aircraft destroyed as:
Victories by Artilliery...................1537 + 1 airship.
" " aircraft....... .............7425 aircraft
total 8962 "
" " " ........................614 balloons
Total victories 9577 aircraft
German Army acknowledges they lost 3128 aircraft of all types.
Aircraft listed at the Front would include the aircraft at all front units and the Army Air Parks. It would not include aircraft at training schools and aircraft in transit from the factories to the Air Parks. The inventory listing is aircraft on a specific date and time, i.e. morning report of 31 March 1918 as of 6:00 hours. The actual aircraft on hand, 16 S.E.5a on hand. Not the nominal established strength, i.e 56 Squadron, RAF(S.E.5a) 18 machines
I hope I have shed a little light on the subject.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
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26 April 2004, 04:53 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 1st take-off from a ship
Posts: 291
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Hang in there Sniperking, you're entering the world of statistics. My recommendation is find one set of numbers you're happy with and draw conclusions from there, esp for an academic paper. Where have all the airplanes gone? a favorite subject... and controversial.
cheers, Boom
__________________
Flier, Factotum and Scribe
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27 April 2004, 12:39 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,161
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Hi
The amount of 1537 victories and 1 air-ship by German Flak units is NOT correct, despite that this information is mentioned in some German sources...
Actually only 1210 e/a and 2 air-ships were officially confirmed. A rather detailed list on monthly basis can be found in a recent article in Over The Front...
However the total amount of Balloon victories by Flak units is still unknown...
 h34r:
Gunnar
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27 April 2004, 12:50 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
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Gunnar:
Thank you for the correction, I only checked one source. The listings appear to vary from one book to another.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
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27 April 2004, 01:22 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,119
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Sniperking:
While France made almost 68000 aircraft, they abslutely did not loose 52000. France had a very large air force and 4500 aircraft ay the front would most likely be correct.
On any given day that figure would change relative to the activity at the front. After March 1918, the German offensives up to July and the Allied offensives to the end of the war caused a high attrition in aircraft and related equipment. During offensive/defensive battles losses from all causes, called "wastage" is very high, in the order of 100+%. This is bad landings war weary tired aircraft, shot down, whatever. So, if the French had 4500 airplanes on 1 June 1918, they consumed 100 % and on 30 June they still had 4500 planes in their front inventory which had replace those that were lost from all causes.
Over a third of all the machines the French built, about 23000 were school machines, used to train new pilots. There was a very high wastage rate in the flying schools. This also applied to all the other combatants.
Another aspect, is new designs replaced old designs at the rate of every 5 to 6 months. For example none of the 1916 fighters were fighting in 1917, nor the 1917 aircraft were fighting in 1918.
During the period of the war the various air forces grew in size monthly as the demand increase for the service of observation, tactical, operative and strategic demands for intelligence and after the 1915 the demands made for the protection of the observation and artillery grew the fighters units were developed, and each service added new fighting units monthly up to the end of the war.
This will explain some of your questions.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
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