Sopwith Dolphin

[JohnFitz]

Thanks Cigogne,

I did get the answer and also pictures. The valves are actually "priming cups" for petrol. Thanks for your response.

[wolfenbill]

A well tuned and properly maintained Hisso does not need propping in the sense we usually associate starting aircraft engines without starters. If properly done you can go through the procedure described by Cody Paul and start it by holding the propellor (gingerly) in the proper position and having another ground crew turn the magneto crank.

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Cigogne Posted: May 19 2004, 01:12 PM

AAC Cadet Leader,

I didn't see if anyone answered your question, but, I don't think that the Hispano-Suiza vee-eight engine, or any stationary engine (Mercedes, BMW, BHP, Rolls-Royce, etc.) for that matter, used castor oil!

Castor Oil was used only in rotary engines like the Le Rhône, Clerget, Gnôme, Bentley, Oberursel, Siemens-Halske, etc.

Are you sure?? Seems to me Cole Palen's JN4-D at Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome used castor oil in it's Hispano Suiza. I distinctly remember the burnt smell of it and the oily mist carried with the propeller wash.

Even put the castor oil into a poem I wrote about the wonderful Jenny ride I was treated to. Hope I don't have to revise my poem now.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

RPope:
If you will check the Wright-Martin Handbook," Instruction For The and Operation and Care of Model A-I-E Hispano-Suiza Aeronautical Engines" page 55 reads: "The timing of the magnetos is accomplished with the aid of a timing disc which is first located by top dead center of cylinder 1-L and the right-hand is then put in place to fire cylinder 1-L. Next the left-hand magneto is set to to fire cylinder 1-L also and the two magnetos then synchronized so they fire at the same time."
The valve timing is:
Intakle opens........10° after top center.
Intake closes.........50° after bottom center.
Exhaust opens..... 45° before bottom center.
Exhaust Closes......10° after top center.
The primary difference between the A-I-E hisso was the compression ratios, the Models A and I are 4.72:1 and 150 hp @ 1450rpm, and the Model E is 5.33:1 and 180 hp @ 1850 rpm.
blue skies,
Dan-San

[Dan_San_Abbott]

AACCadet Leader:
To lubricate the rodsand etc. on rotary engines the lubricant is mixed with the fuel and air as it is emitted into the crankcase. Regular petroleum oil would be diluted when mixed with the fuel and would not provide the necessary lubrication to the various engine parts. Castor oil is one of the very few lubricants the is not diluted when mixed with gasoline. That is the reason castor oil is used in rotary engines.
Regular petroleum oil were used in in fixed aero engines. German supplies of castor oil was used up in the early years of the WW1 and forced the Germans to come up with a subsitute lubricant which was Votol. The chemical engineered Votol was better than nothing, and did not fully do the job.
Votol was used in the Siemens und Halske Sh III and ShIIIa engines in the SSw D.III, D.IV and the Pfalz D.VIII fighters in early 1918. The Votol inability to properly lubricate these engines caused piston seizures and the resultant failure of the engines. With the Sh.IIIa engines the problem was resolved to some extent, when the SSW D.III and SSW D.IV were re-issued in the summer of 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

I can't think of any reason (other than expense) why someone couldn't use castor oil in a stationary engine today, so you might not have to change your poem.

The point is that castor oil was required in rotaries. Other oils would have been used in stationary engines in 1914-18 because they would have been cheaper and more easily obtained.

[R Pope]

Dan San....that's the way the mags are timed. My comment was to the effect that the ground crew would turn the prop so the crankshaft was a degree or so past TDC so the engine would fire the right direction. Running backwards is a sure way to have a carb fire.

[AAC Cadet Leader]

Dan_San_Abbott Posted on May 20 2004, 10:38 AM

AACCadet Leader:
To lubricate the rodsand etc. on rotary engines the lubricant is...

With the Sh.IIIa engines the problem was resolved to some extent, when the SSW D.III and SSW D.IV were re-issued in the summer of 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Uh, so is one of these the Hispano Suiza in ORA's Jenny? And could it have castor oil in it?


Michael Skeet Posted: May 24 2004, 04:37 PM

I can't think of any reason (other than expense) why someone couldn't use castor oil in a stationary engine today, so you might not have to change your poem.

Oh good!

[R Pope]

Castor oil is a good lubricant in any high temp,high pressure application. I mentioned on another thread that it won't burn, but that's not exactly right. What it does is polymerize to a thicker, heavier state on exposure to heat, thus raising its ignition point. With enough heat it turns to varnish, not the best thing inside an engine but not all that bad on a rag airplane! In plain English, it will burn. It just doesn't,not in an engine.