Albatros (Oef) DIII.

16 June 2004, 04:58 AM

Hi,

I was a reading a czech book "Albatros D.II & D.III (Oeffag)" about austro-hungarian version of a german Albatros DIII.

I found there a picture (see below) of an albatros with a czech pilot, Fw. Josef Novak (in the coclpit), serving in the Austro-Hungarian air forces.

What captured my attention was a symbol "LiL" just below the cockpit because I am pretty sure that I saw the same symbol on another german plane (maybe Fokker DVII) serving in the GAF on western front.

Has anyone seen it before? And Do you know what it may represent?

Hirshman

Gregvan · 16 June 2004, 07:34 AM

Hello,

I would imagine the German aircraft you are thinking of is

Rudolf Stark's Fokker D.VII (OAW) 4523/18, which eventually bore the white letters "Li" on his lilac (purple) fuselage band.

I do not know the origin or derivation of these letters for Stark, but I suspect that he may have had a lady friend named "Lila" or something similar. I have no proof or confirmation of that.

I know nothing of the origin or meaning of the marking's on Novak's Albatros. I am fairly certain there was no connection between his marking and that of Rudolf Stark. Just a coincidence.

Very best regards,

Greg VanWyngarden

StephenLawson · 16 June 2004, 09:17 AM

Looks like 'Lil' short for Lilly

17 June 2004, 09:58 AM

Thank you!

It really looks like it was the Stark's plane I saw.

Anyway, those airmen used pretty same graphics for writhing their lady's name.

Thanks again

Hirshman

greenknight · 17 June 2004, 10:18 AM

Hirshman,

The US Air Force Museum has a reproduction of a Fokker D.VII painted to represent

Rudolf Stark's "Li". Colors are as Gregvan described. You can see some photos of it here.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/ey4c.htm

I agree with you; the graphics some of the pilots used are quite attractive. And you'll find them in quite a variety of fonts and styles.

Hope this Helps.

Cigogne · 17 June 2004, 03:30 PM

No relation, just coincidence... good graphic design/use of typography!

Intrepid · 19 June 2004, 10:41 AM

Hirschman,

The Lil painted on 153.137 was short for Lillian. This aircraft was shot down 6 May 1918 with Korporal Hans Schraffl of Flik 41J aboard.

Aircraft had been piloted by Brumowski and Navratil, although neither aces scored any of their victories in this machine.

The builder of the replica Stark Fokker D.VII errored in the fact the real aircraft was covered with four colour lozenge.

Source:

Albatros D.III (OEF) by Peter Grosz (Windsock Datafile 19)

Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian Empire by Dr. Martin O'Connor

Fokker D.VII Anthology 2 published Albatros Productions

Cigogne · 19 June 2004, 11:02 AM

I don't think it was an error of ignorance, but rather a use of what printed fabric was available. I think that the material they used was from Ross Walton's company, and they were only producing the one pattern at the time. Who wants to "paint" the lozenge fabric onto an aircraft when you can buy the printed fabric, no matter the wrong pattern?

I know we all want accuracy, but... who wants to go blind and paint all of those lozenges and have them look innaccurate because it is paint and not silk screened inks?

Also, the research of these patterns has come a lot further in recent years due to the research done by Messrs. Toelle, Abbott, VanWyngarden, etc. just to name a few. They didn't know as much in the mid-1990s when that aircraft was redone. It was originally the old Palen "D.VII" (C.I) as far as I heard, or? Can anyone verify?

24 June 2004, 02:23 AM

Hi

Thank you all, esp. Intrepid for your comprehensive informations.

Btw, on the picture of 153.137 I can see clearly "J" and "N" letters what might be initials for "Josef Novak".
Is it possible that he could assigned plane with his personal markings being only a feldwebel?

Hirshman

wolfenbill · 24 June 2004, 11:41 AM

Cigogne is absolutely right about our use of the 5 color vs 4 color lozenge pattern at Vintage Aviation Services. Only the 5 color was available. The museum wanted the Stark livery. We argued about it among ourselves but settled on 5 'cause you couldn't buy 4. I surely didn't want to mask and spray lozenge patterns. Would you? I think Walton's fabric company is gearing up to print some 4 color fabric soon though.