Technical data needed: Fairey Hamble Baby

[MikeW]

Volker,

normal armament for the baby was a synchronised Vickers, though I have seen photographs with a Lewis fitted to the top wing and firing over the propeller arc.

My understanding is the the Lewis design did not readily lend itself to being synchronised.


The Sopwith baby was Sopwith's most successful design from the point of view of longevity of service, still in use by the Norwegians at the beginning of the 30's. The model was used in all sorts of unlikely places.

Marlon,

thanks, of course it was Ansaldo, amazing what I can remember if someone else remembers it for me!!


Mike

[Intrepid]

* This time I have to disagree with you Mike in regards to the armament. The Hamble Baby did indeed have a synchronized Lewis probably synchronized by the Hazelton mechanism. I have never seen a Schneider nor a Baby with a Vickers gun.

* *An un-snchronized Lewis mounted in front of the cockpit and firing upwards through the aperture in the centre section
could also be carried, but very rarely were both mountings seen together . Too much weight. ** * * * * * * * * *

* *A Lewis gun mounted on the centre section was also possible. A few Babies had twin Lewis guns on the centre section. There was even at least one Schneider of the East Indies and Egypt Seaplane *Sqdn. that had a twin Lewis mount on the centre section. *

* * * * * * * * * Marlon Schultz

[MikeW]

Marlon,

you would be right, and you would be wrong, as you'll see below. I had Vickers in my head because I have the paperwork ordering Baby's with Vickers guns placed on Sopwith in July 1916.

This is a French Naval Baby, 130 Clerget, Vickers through the prop and Lewis on the top wing:




I completly forgot Volker was asking about the armament of the Fairey variant. Sorry :-[

I seem to recall that the armament experts said in various threads that the Lewis wouldn't synchronise properly.

Mike

[AGO]

Hi all,

I've had to win some hesitation before posting this reply as its
content is apparently not confirmed by any of the books about WWI
seaplanes I've read to date.Maybe there's some information available
on some issue of OTF or C&C I don't know?
My problem is that two years ago I *found *some letters and documents
at the archive of the Italian navy referring to a certain number (at least
six) of Hanriot-built Sopwith Babies that the Regia Marina received from
France in 1917.Only, not the late J.M. Bruce nor Davilla do any mention of
Hanriot-built babies!.
Were they a mirage?
Many thanks in advance.
VBR
AGO

[Intrepid]

Hi Mike,

* *So now I have seen a Baby with a Vickers.
Thanks * *

But a Baby with a Vickers was the exception rather than the rule.

* *I find the Sopwith documents you noted regarding the arming *with Vickers most interesting. *

Hi AGO,

* * What I have written comes from Jack Bruce's "Sopwith Baby" Windsock Datafile 60.

I believe there is also an Ansaldo Baby mini-datafile by the same publishers.
*
There are numerous photos in this publication of Babies with a synchronized *Lewis, and Jack Bruce makes numerous references to it.

* * * * * * * *Marlon Schultz

[Intrepid]

Volker and Mike:

Harry Woodman wrote an article in Windsock International *Vol. 11 No. 2 called "Bombing up Baby".

* Woodman confirms the use of the Lewis gun.

He goes on to explain the synchronization of the Lewis Gun was done in either of two ways:

1) The French Alkan system which converted the Lewis to virtually an engine operated weapon.

2) The Hazelton system. I noted this system in a previous post on this thread.

* This system was devised by Lt. Cdr. George Hazelton RNAS converted the Lewis to a semi-Maxim.


AGO:
* * **Since your concern was unsubstantated information, here are the references:

"Early Aircraft Armament, The Aeroplane and the Gun up to 1918." * by Harry Woodman

"Bombing up Baby" *by Harry Woodman *- Windsock International Vol 11 No.2

"Sopwith Baby" *By J M Bruce - Windsock Datafile 60 *

* *The French received seven Sopwith Baby aircraft ,8128; 8129; 8185 without an engine and N1106;N1121;N1430; and N1431. JM Bruce notes details of their employment are scarce.
* *
* *You say the Italians received six Babies from the French? *

* *Maybe rebuilt by Hanriot ???

* * * * * *Marlon Schultz

[AGO]

Marlon,

Thanks for your list of references.
As for the Hanriot and the Babies ,your opinion could be undoubtely
right.
A photo of one of these machines is apparently available at pg. 323
of the book "Gli Assi dell'Aviazione Italiana nella Grande Guerra",where
is depicted a Baby in Italian service which is described as
"Ansaldo Sopwith".
However, some details of this Baby make it much more similar to
an original Sopwith machine rather than to an Ansaldo.
The most evident is the engine cowling,which has an horsehoe
shape where the Ansaldo Babies had a circular cowling, instead.
An other one could be the small access panel just behind the engine.
This has apparently the same size of the Baby depicted in the photo
at pg. 29 of J.M. Bruces' "Windsock Datafile No. 60", where is showed
a rather misterious Baby with a fouled-anchor emblem similar to
the one employed by the French *Aviation Maritime.
VBR
AGO

[MikeW]

Marlon,

can't comment on the Alkan system applied to the Lewis, I'm only familiar with the Alkan-Hamy fitted to the Vickers, can't be the same system surely?

I believe Hazleton was the first to admit that the synchronised Lewis fitted with Hazleton gear had severe operational limitations.

If you are looking for detailed information on the use of the Baby in French naval service, you need a copy of L' Aviation Maritime Francaise Pendent La Grande Guerre, written by Lucien Mororeau amongst others, and published by Ardhan. Pricey and in French but a superb book nevertheless. Lots of pictures of Babys, their pilots, details of operation etc. Thoroughly recommend it!!


Mike

[Intrepid]

Mike and AGO:

* * Thanks for the book titles. I also have no problems with the translations. A good friend was born in Italy and my women is French-Canadian

Life is Good

* * *Woodham said "The first effort was the French Alkan system used on a limited scale on some Nieuports. He said it turned the Lewis into "an engine operated weapon."

* Could this be the system that was used on the Nieuport 11 "Blue Bird" 3983 of Flt. Cmdr. KS Savoy of 2 Wing RNAS late in 1915?

* * * I would think it would be similar to the cam style interupter gear *???

* * *You are right regarding the limitations of the Hazelton system. How many of these early seaplanes ever fired their gun in anger though ? *

* * * * * *
* * * * * * Marlon Schultz

[MikeW]

Ago & Marlon,


the majority of the French Naval Babys were supplied by Hanriot and by SACA.

Hanriot and SACA both manufactured under licence from Sopwith - this came as something of a surprise to me.

That should answer your question Ago.


Mike