Fokker DVIII

willycoppens · 3 February 2003, 02:06 AM

Hello, Did the Fokker DVIII see operational service? Was it considered to be an advanced design ? Thank you, willycoppens

Barker · 3 February 2003, 04:23 AM

As a high-wing, cantilevered monoplane, yes. It had no wires except control.

IIRC, D.8's did not make it back in time to be a factor, but the original designation, E.V, flew in July-August, Jasta 6 of that year and was in combat. Withdrawn due to wing failures and not re-deployed, as the D.VIII until late Oct, Nov.

Naval units flew and scored with this type, I believe.

There is a famous foto of 20 some odd mechanics and assemblers sitting on a E.V wing to allay fears the wing was weak. Tony is smiling into the camera, as usual. Someone here has done a diorama of this, I think and it may be Stephen Lawson...

3 February 2003, 04:56 AM

Who was it that actually dubbed the D-VIII, the D-VIII? I would think that German nomenclature would have assigned this a "E" designation ("Eindekker") rather than a "D" designation ("Doppledecker"). Did the Germans call this the D-VIII too?
Also, did this aircraft type get a crack at using some of the better Radial designs like those coming out of Siemans-Halske?

Joe

Matt_Bittner · 3 February 2003, 05:23 AM

I have heard that the Soviets (possibly pre-Soviet during the Russian Civil War) flew D.VIIIs operationally. However, I have yet to track down any images of D.VIIIs with any Russian markings on them. Does anybody know if this is true? TIA!

Barker · 3 February 2003, 06:56 AM

Matt, the Bumblebee that Osterkamp flew is supposed to have been during the Russian Civil War after WW1. Markings post-war.

Am not sure of the D.8 designation other than oblique reference citing 'spin' to position the perception of the a/c *away* from the E.V it was.

IIRC, it did prototype with a SH 160 and also a (look out, here comes the 'discussion') a 160 Oberusel.
gotta check the df...

D = two wings, does it not?
If so, strictly speaking, a misnomer.

If had to guess, sounds like Tony-The-Marketer.

3 February 2003, 06:59 AM

So the Germans referred to it as a D-VIII?

Joe

Barker · 3 February 2003, 07:12 AM

Both.
(in the df just now..)
E.V prior to withdrawal in August of '18, D.VIII in Oct/Nov upon re-introduction.
quoting pg 25, df #25:
'left, the final batch of Fokker D.VIII ordered, 670-729/18, was powered by the 160 hp Oberusel Ur.II engine. The photos show D.VIII 692/18 (w/n 2694). It was not officially accepted. (i.e. flight tested) but sold to the German government after Nov. '18 and prob delivered to Italy as war reparation. The larger cowling of the 11-cylinder engine is readily apparent.'

It is, too, looks like a dog dish or a UFO...

pg 22:
'...at McCook field during flight testing May '21. 1st Lt. Leigh Wade reported a rapid climb, easy flying characteristics and very good visibility.'

There is no mention of manoeverability but one wonders...

Matt: You prob know this but there is no mention in the df of Russia, only Poland, in post-war livery.

The pic of Tony & the Gang on the wing is on page one of the df. I count 24 men on the wing, equally distributed throughout. There is no deflection or other evidence of load!

dat's whut I know...

Rob_Owens · 3 February 2003, 07:43 AM

Am doing a 1/32 E.V and in research on Loz fabric covering I stumbled across a web page (didn't bookmark it, damn!) which said in effect that the "D" designation (usually meaning "Doppeldecker" [biplane]) was used because the strength of the new wing had been "doubled" from that of the E.V wing. From what I've read about Herr Fokker in the Forum, that sounds like a little twist he'd come up with. 73's, Rob

Dan_San_Abbott · 3 February 2003, 08:08 AM

Rob Owens:
*After the wing had been tested and accepted by Idflieg, Idflieg decided (not Fokker ) to change the "Class E" designation, which means Eindecker, (armed monoplane) to the Class D designation (Doppeldecker, armed biplane.). The purpose to to show the aircraft had the new wing. *However, there were some that were delivered after the designation change that still bore the E.V type stencil on the fuselage.
* The first D.VIII accepted was D.VIII 697/18 on 8 October 1918. Eight D.VIII machines in the order D. 670-729/18 were accepted in Octoter out of a total of 61 D.VIII. *In November 36 Fok.D.VIII machines were accepted, 8 of were from the D.670-729/18 order. *in December 1918, 45 more D.VIII aircraft were accepted, of which another 8 were from the D.670-729/18 order.
* *The acceptance date is not the shipping or delivery date, which could be two to three weeks later before they arrived at the Armee Flugpark.
The first Fok.D.VIII accepted was Fok.D.VIII 295/18 on 8 October 1918. By the end of the month a total of 61 D.VIII machines had been accepted. Allowing 14 days for shipping and delivery to the Armee Flugpark, would put the date at 22 October 1918, unloading, assembly and flight test another week, puts the date at 29 October 1918.
The Front Bestand (Front Inventory) has 85 which would have included the Fok.E.V machines delivered in August and listed 80 E.V machines in the inventory on 31 august 1918.
This indicates that only 5 Fok.D.VIII machines had reached the front of the new production and the 80 had received new wings.
In my "Jagdstaffel Aircraft byType" listings, I have no information of any Fok. D.VIII aircraft being re-issued to any Jasta at the front in October or November 1918.
The performance of the BMW powered Fok.D.VII was as good, if not better than the Fok.D.VIII with the 120Ps UR.II engine.
The 145 Ps Ur.III had not made the scene in any force to make a difference by November 1918. From what I have read only a few were installed in a few Fok. D.VIII aircraft.
* * * * * * * * * * Blue skies,
* * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San

Lufbery · 3 February 2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

D = two wings, does it not?
If so, strictly speaking, a misnomer.

If had to guess, sounds like Tony-The-Marketer.

While probably not strictly appropriate to this topic, I remember a funny exchange in an Ernest Gann book (forget which one) that went something like this:

The book's main character is offering rides to people at a country fair for a few bucks a piece. A nervous potential customer comes up, looks at the main character's monoplane and says, "How does that thing fly? It's only got one wing!"

The main character replies, "No, it's got two wings; one on each side."

Regards,