SSW D.III and D.IV in combat

[baldeagle]

* * Can anybody tell me how effective the Siemens-Schuckert D.III and D.IV were as far as victories vs. losses? *Did many pilots claim victories in them? *Did Udet?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *AK

[wingstrutdotcom]

As far as known Udet never flew his into combat. You can find a few accounts of DIII/DIV encounters, victories and shootdowns, but not much. Windsock has a good file on the plan which makes for a good starting point.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

baldeagle:
I am working 0n an answer for you on this question. I will post it in a day or two.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Dan_San_Abbott]

baldeagle:
I am working 0n an answer for you on this question. I will post it in a day or two.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Dan_San_Abbott]

baldeagle:
commencing in 6 April 1918, 9 SSW D.III aircraft, s/n D.8347/17 to D.8354/17 were delivered to Jage Nr.II. This was followed on 19 April with 5 more SSW D.III, s/n D.8355/17-D.8359/17.
*Also on 19 April 1918, 5 SSW D.III were delivered to Jage Nr.II, s/n D.1600/18 to D.1603/18 and D.1605/18. *On 30 April 1918 Jage Nr.II received 6 SSW D.III aircraft, s/n D.1604/18, D.1606/18 to D.1608/18, D.1611/18 and D.1612/18.
* On 13 May 1918 Jage Nr.II received 6 SSW D.III machines, s/n D.1614 to D.1619/18.
* *On 18 May 4 more SSW D.III aircraft were delivered to Jage Nr.II, s/n D.1610/18, D.1613/18, D.1621/18 and D.1624/18.
* With these 35 SSW D.III aircraft powered with ShIII engine, Jage Nr II received 1 SSW D.IV prototype, s/n 7353/17 on 15 April 1918 also with 160 Ps ShIII bi-rotary engine.
* *These aircraft were issued to Jasta 12, 13, 15 and 19.
* *On 16 March 1918, Jage Nr.III received 6 SSw D.III aircraft, s/n D.8340-8345/17. *I have no information to which Jasta theses SSW D.III were issued.
* All of these 41 SSW D.III had engine problems caused by the inadequate lubrication of the "ersatz" Voltol engine oil as a replacement for castor oil.
* On or about 18 May 1918, Idflieg ordered to withdrawal of all SSW D.III aircraft from the front and grouned the ShIII engine until the over heating problems were resolved.
* *In reviewing the Jasta dairies for this period, I can not with a certainty attribute any victories to pilots who flew the SSW D.III machine. They had a large number of engine failures and forced landings around their airfields, i doubt they flew them in combat with the engine problems the pilots were experiencing.*
* *Idflieg ordered the airframe and engine redesigned to erradicate the problems and to improve the handling qualities, and the existing aircraft to be rebuilt.
* *The next part with cover the return to the front with the rebuilt SSW D.III and the production version SSW D.IV.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Blue skies,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan-San

[baldeagle]

Thanks Dan-San, very interesting, for all the press they get I always wondered how effective they were. Can't wait to hear the rest.

AK

[Craig]

I don't think the Germans recorded, necessarily, the type of machine used when recording victories. This makes such a question difficult to answer, yes?

Alfred Lens scored with a D.IV, and I read on some other site that Berthold scored in spring '18 with a D.III, but I'm not so sure, due to the engine problems. Who'd look for a fight when you're not sure your motor won't seize?

Alfred Greven of Jasta 12 may have scored, as that unit used both D.III and D.IV's along with Fokkers in late summer 1918 - and Greven got a few during this period. Fritz Beckhardt, of Kest (?), claimed a pair of Breguets in his D.III. A man named Rodschinko is mentioned as having scored, but I don't know what unit he was with.

We'll see how these remarks hold up to scrutiny. But, although there weren't great numbers of these birds in use, there were enough of them to make certain that they were successful. Furthermore, their performance and maneuverability were excellent, so I feel safe in assuming that, even with the scarcity of hard evidence, that they were successful to a commensurate degree.

[baldeagle]

Thanks Craig, good input. The reason I ask this question is that I'm building a Nieuport 28, and I'm dreaming ahead to the next project already, which will probably be German (though I'd like to do a Salmson 2A2 as well). I'd like to do something a little out of the ordinary, but pick a particular machine that has a good story behind it and/or the pilot, which is why I asked about Udet's D.III. For a fighter plane a combat record obviously adds to the story.
I wonder also about the Pfalz D.VIII, did Bäumer score with his? Beckmann? Anybody else?

AK

[VonHelton]

Thanks Craig, good input. The reason I ask this question is that I'm building a Nieuport 28, and I'm dreaming ahead to the next project already, which will probably be German (though I'd like to do a Salmson 2A2 as well). I'd like to do something a little out of the ordinary, but pick a particular machine that has a good story behind it and/or the pilot, which is why I asked about Udet's D.III. For a fighter plane a combat record obviously adds to the story.
I wonder also about the Pfalz D.VIII, did Bäumer score with his? Beckmann? Anybody else?

AK

As far as the SSW D.III/D.IV goes, you'll have to take any information with a grain of salt.

FAT HERMANN used his political clout to black-ball the aircraft from the beginning.

As for Udet, my understanding was that he reported the plane flying wonderfully! So did Berthold.......

[Craig]

RE: Pfalz D.VIII
I'm pretty sure that Bäumer and Beckmann were successful with it, as was Auffarth. But Bäumer cracked his up and sat on the bench for months with a shattered jaw. I'd imagine they weren't the easiest to fly. Reasonably fast and blessed with a fine rate of climb, they D.VIII was used primarily by the Kests as the SSW fighters were more maneuverable.

RE: Claims against SSW's
Who knows, what with RFC claims being so dodgy. Some unit claimed 2 SSW D.IV's as 'OOC' in September, but like I said . . . and it seems an 'OOC' is as good a a wink to a blind man . . . .