Ten Most Famous Aircraft of the AFC

This is for everybody to comment on, the list I came up with was,

1. Bristol F2b Fighter B1229 : The Big Hearted Biff
2. Royal Aircraft Factory RE8 A4397 : Sylvia
3. Royal Aircraft Factory RE8 A3816 : The Ghost RE8
4. Sopwith Snipe E8050 : Kings Mount
5. Sopwith Camel D1929 : Cobby's Mount
6. Martinsyde G100 7486 : McNamara's Victoria Cross
7. Handley Page 0/400 C9681 : The Mother Tiara
8. Avro 504K D7789 : Tabbies TAB
9. Royal Aircraft Factory SE5a B129 : Holden's Red Devil

I am looking for aircraft that are well known and have a good story around them or an incident surrounding the aircraft and it's pilots. I basically want ones that someone interested in aviation but not well-versed in the AFC can look at, see a cool plane, a cool photo and a good story or an over-achieving personality.

There are only 9 in that list, I am hoping the folks here can re-arrange them or add new ones.

The rational for the 9 there are,

1. B1229 : Highest decorated British or Dominion aircraft. Picked up a lot of downed airmen, shot down a lot of aircraft and was the primary mount of Ross Smith.
2. RE8 A4397 : Sylvia spent the most time over the lines of any British or Dominion aircraft. Main pilot was capt Francis who did the most hours in the air at a squadron of any AFC pilot.
3. RE8 A3816 : The Ghost RE8 of Sandy and Hughes that flew in wide circles after a fight with Albatrosse aircraft, including the Albatros of Lt Claus in the AWM.
4. Sopwith Snipe E8050 : AFC ace Roy King flew this and scored 7 victories in during the last month of the war. It was the highest scoring Snipe of any British or Dominion Squadron. King was a larrikin as well.
5. Sopwith Camel D1929 : Cobby's was the leading ace and a larrikin. Millions of stories around Cobby, his aircraft had Chaplins on them. This was the aircraft he did a large amount of his scoring in.
6. Martinsyde G100 7486 : McNamara's Victoria Cross, though the flew back in Rutherfords BE, this aircraft was the one he went odwn in and the one that the bomb blew up on to give him an 'ass wound'.
7. Handley Page C9681 : This was the one that Smith flew to supply Fiesals Army with Lawrence of Arabia. When it landed the Arabs rode around firing shots in the air.
8. Avro 504K D7789 : Good story on this one about Tabby Pflaum buzzing Oswald Watts hut early one morning. Watt thought it was Pflaum but couldnt prove it so he made Pflaum paint TAB on it in large letters so he could positively identify Pflaum next time. Plenty of photos of this with a kangaroo mascot on it as well.
9. SE5a B129 : This is the all red aircraft of Holdens, it led to rumours in the Cotswolds that the Red Barons aircraft had been captured and was being test flown at the AFC base.


There are no 2 Sqn AFC aircraft there, I couldnt think of any stand out aircraft off the top of my head. There are also no CFS aicraft or Mesopotamian Half Flight either.

I am interested in everyones views and what people know as being the AFC aircraft they know. Those with a deeper interest in the AFC I am interested in the ten you consider the most famous.



cam

A new No. 9

Capt. H G Forrest's C9539 'V' a geared HS powered SE5a.

3 claims 22 March 1918 and 3 claims on 2 June 1918, All of Forrest's 11 claims scored in this a/c; AWM photograph E01882 and a full size one (of the wrong model) painted up as this one in the ANZAC hall.

And how about Cobby's personal Camel (E7267) when he was the Wing Fighting Instructor at Leighterton. A lovely white Camel with black checks.

[Ross_Moorhouse]

Well I would like to know if the Bristol Scout that the Turks captured was from 1 Sqd AFC ? I bet though to even find a picture of it in Turkish use would be as rare as rocking horse doo-doo..

Hi Cam,

* I found your web-site through your posts.
As someone who *knew very little about the AFC , I have found your website most informative.

* I found your story on the Half - Flight *in Mesopotamia most interesting. I have focused exclusively on the Western Front in the past. This was new and interesting material to me.

* I vote for the Farman that was taxied across miles of desert, and from which the crew took pot-shots at the Turks. *

* * * * * * * * MacBain
* * * * * * * * *

[Ross_Moorhouse]

A postmortem was carried out on these two and it is believed that the same bullet killed both. An armour-piercing shell had been fired from behind by an Albatros. It hit the observer first, passing through his lung and then traveled onto the base of the pilots skull.

The wind had forced the plane to travel 50 miles sth-west of the area of the dogfight. When it was reported that they had been found Capt R.Ross was dispatched to examine the crash site.

At first this was just a dogfight between one RE8 and six DVas. One Albs was forced to land behind Allied lines. This is the one that was sent to the Australian War Memorial. The pilot had been wounded by bullets from one of the RE8s.

Then Jones arrived in his RE8 to help out the lone one. Just as another RE8 from 3 AFC turned up the other Albs turned tail and fled. So 3 RE8s drove off the enemy. A real feat for a poor old plane like the RE8.

Also just as the dogfight had finished, Jones, saw the "ghost" RE8 of Hughes and Sandy and flew along side of them. Neither of them looked over at Jones as they where both dead. Jones assumed that everything was ok as the RE8 hadn't sustained much damage. So Jones broke away from them and headed back to Bailleul for more ammo.

All the above has been taken from the book.. "Clash of Eagles. Australian Airmen from World War One to Vietnam" by Dennis Newton.

{EDIT} *The RE8 was a very stable plane. Slow as well. It was used as an Arty Obs plane. The pilot would wind down his copper line from under neath the plane. This was connected to his radio from which he would tap out in morse the plot for the shoot. This was transmitted to a wireless operator who was assigned to a battery. Some of these where in fact AFC guys. If you can get hold of the book " Until a Dead horse Kicks You." by Robert Crack. This book is the life of Alec Griffiths who was a wireless operator for the AFC assigned to arty batteries all along the Western Front. It will give far more detail than I can here.

After the wireless operator had received the plot and gave it to the battery commander he would then lay out white strips of canvas to form a letter so that the pilot knew that the message had been received. The plane could only transmit. Not receive. This meant that the wireless operator on the ground was exposed most of the time. Even during counter battery fire from the enemy he still had to receive the message and them let the pilot know that he had by laying out the strips. Many of these wireless guys where killed this way.

[baldeagle]

All right, what's a larrikin?

Baldy,

>All right, what's a larrikin?

It is from the Antipodean language of 'strine;

larrikin - hooligan; loutish youth; rough, rowdy, boisterous young man.

from;

http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/l.htm

A larrikin has to not only be able to laugh the hardest but also punch the hardest. A larrikin must also view mateship as the highest attainable human virtue.


cam

Duckman,

>do we know if there is any truth in that story?

This is the relevant page from "The Battle Below", which was written by H.N. Wrigley in the 1930's. Wrigley was a former pilot, flight commander and temporary OC of 3 Sqn.

"Another interesting combat occurred during a break in the weather on 17th December, when Lieutenant J. L. Sandy, with Sergeant H. F. Hughes as observer, was engaged in observing fire for the 151st Siege Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery (8inch Howitzers). This work had been in progress for some thirty-five minutes when Lieutenant Sandy was attacked, between Deulemont and Armentieres, by a formation consisting of six Albatross D.5a Scouts. Lieutenant Sandy, refusing to dive away, turned and engaged the enemy and succeeded'' in bringing down one, which landed intact in our lines about a mile and a half north of Armentieres, the wounded pilot being taken prisoner by Infantry of the 21st Battalion, 2nd Australian Division.

Meanwhile, the unequal fight continued, and another R.E.8 aircraft of the squadron, piloted by Lieutenant E. J. Jones, with Lieutenant K- C. Hodgson as observer, seeing Lieutenant Sandy so hotly engaged, went to his assistance, with the result that the enemy aircraft withdrew to their own lines. Lieutenant Jones flew round close to the other R.E.8 aircraft and identified it by its number as Lieutenant Sandy's aircraft. About this time a third aircraft of No. 69 Squadron, piloted by Lieutenant H. N. Wrigley, with Lieutenant J. R. Blair as observer, came upon the scene and, to the crews of both these aircraft, Lieutenant Sandy's aircraft and crew appeared to be all right, so Lieutenant Jones returned to Bailleul aerodrome to replenish his ammunition supply. and Lieutenant Wrigley proceeded on his way to carry out an artillery reconnaissance. Lieutenant Sandy's aircraft, not having, returned to the aerodrome at the conclusion of flying for the day. information concerning it was sought by telephone, but it was not until tile following night that a telegram was received from No. 12 Stationary Hospital, St. Pol, to the effect that the dead bodies of Lieutenant Sandy and Sergeant Hughes had been found in a crashed R.E.8 aircraft in a field about 8 kilometres north-east of St. Pol, near the main Bruay-St. Pol road.

An armour piercing bullet had passed through the observer's left lung and thence into the base of the pilot's skull, and the medical opinion was that they had been killed instantly during their combat with the enemy aircraft. They had not been injured at all in the crash on landing, nor was the damage to the aircraft very extensive. This afforded a striking example of the stability and flying qualities of the R.E.8. From an examination of the crash it appeared that after the crew had been killed the aircraft had flown itself in wide left-hand circles until the petrol supply ran out, and this theory is supported by the fact that the wind on that day was north-east and would cause a southwest drift. The place where the aircraft was found was on an air distance of 50 miles from the scene of the combat. The Albatross D.5a, brought down by Lieutenant Sandy and Sergeant Hughes was salved by a party of mechanics under Captain Ross under shell fire on the night of the 17th/18th December from the forward position in which it landed. It was brought back to the aerodrome and later, by order 2nd Brigade, Royal Flying Corps, sent to No. 1 Aircraft Depot at St. Omer. A claim to the aircraft was subsequently made, however, by the Australian authorities and it was then handed over to the Australian War Museum."


cam

[NeilE]

Hi Cam;

I agree with Gordon: Forrest's Se5a - its recognisable - lots of people have seen the 'replica' in the AWM, so its a good subject.

However......Just to throw the spanner in the works (and yes I know you want AFC), what about the greatest of them all (and just as unrecognised by the Aussie public), Capt Robert Little's Triplane, 'Blymp', and Major Stan Dallas' Camo Se5a? (its a pity they were RNAS but what choice did they have?)

All the Best

Neil

Neil,

>Capt Robert Little's Triplane, 'Blymp', and Major
>Stan Dallas' Camo Se5a?

They can be for Mike and Adrian(Breguet) to do justice to in their upcoming books ;)



cam