French losses 11th Oct 15 and 12th Aug 18

6 February 2005, 12:09 PM

12.8.1918
French Breguet lost near Fismes
Came down in German lines. Pilot captured

11.10.1915
Near Somme-Py
Plane crashed in German lines

Any information on these two losses warmly welcomed
Thx
René

edmondthieffry · 6 February 2005, 02:13 PM

Hello René,

On 12 August 18, Frank W. Bailey, in

The French Air Service War Chronology 1914-1918

ISBN 1-902304-34-9, give Sgt Pierre Poncet (pilot) and ??? (observer) as shot down in combat. It's the sole info that I've.

Hope this is (a little) help.

Best regards from Belgium

Philippe

Soderbaum · 7 February 2005, 01:15 PM

Hi René

I have a note that MdL Jacques Perles was the pilot of the aircraft from Esc Br 232...
He is noted in German sources as KIA (Pons is not mentioned) within the 1 German Army. No exact location is given. This roughly fits the location given by you.
One more e/a was reported brougth down within this German Army this day...

Perles is reported among the British flyers who came down within German hold lines this month, which indicates that they had problem identifying his citizenship...

Gunnar

rammjaeger · 7 February 2005, 01:36 PM

The leader of the German 3. Armee General von Einem reported in his diary on 12. October 1915:

"Vorgestern [10. October] und gestern [11. October] schoß Lt. v. Bülow (17. Husaren) je ein großes französisches Kampfflugzeug ab."

ATL reports a "Farman" as 2nd victory for Ltn.

Walter von Bülow-Bothkamp of Feld-Flieger-Abteilung 22.

The French Air Service War Chronology reports for this day 1 aircraft lost (possibly Ltn. Parschau´s victim), another aircraft lost in an accident and additonal one pilot injured. No fitting loss this day but on 12. October S/Lt Abel d´Astanières (pilot) and S/Lt Henry (observer) of the unit MF 2 with Maurice Farman-aircraft number 784 of III. Armée were reportedly downed by a Fokker. Maybe a late entry for the loss of the Farman on 11. October???

VBR
Rammjaeger

rammjaeger · 7 February 2005, 01:59 PM

René,

are you shure that this aircraft was falling on 11 October 1915 near Somme-Py???

The Heeresbericht reports about the downing of four enemy planes on 11 October but the report says "Yesterday ...". That means the aircraft mentioned in the HB fell near Somme-Py on 10 October 1915.
Somme-Py/Champagne was the sector of the German 3. Armee and of Bülows. So this aircraft could be also an aircraft downed on 10 October - maybe the first victory of Bülow mentioned by von Einem.

VBR
Rammjaeger

14 February 2005, 06:17 AM

Hi you three,

many thanks for your help again.
Got a bit puzzled about the information, but ...
I have two photos (scans) at home which were the reason for my questions. They are part of an article I try to compile as a sort of „first“ on this topic (period) for me. It is based on the memories of an artillery man in WW I. Apart from other ground photos he had these two photos in his file.

Regarding 1915:
You can merely see a heap of scrap on the photo. An rotary engine and few other pieces – and a burned (?) corps. Suppose the unlucky pilot/observer (just one visible). Consequently I assume that the date is 11th October. If the photo would have been taken a day later the corps would have been removed in orderly German territory ; - )) – or ?
So it was the Farman of Bülow-Bothkamp .... ?

Regarding 1918
Interesting. The photo shows the Breguet without battle damage. I suppose it was forced to land.
But the pilot KIA ? As he had a problem with his origin I suppose he was alive and able to speak – or ??
Anyway – on the rudder is a S 23... (last digit unreadable). I suppose it confirms the loss of Esc 232 !