The Famous DLS Von R Tripe

joegertler · 10 February 2005, 05:12 PM

I'll let others explain what the DLS and other details of this photo are. One of last originals bombed to bits in WWII. Von R. display in background. No placards here... In this museum-considered to be one of the best in the world, at the time, they painted the descriptions and info on all the planes right on the fuselages! This is copied from an Original DLS brochure that I MISSED on Ebay. Didn't see it until it was already gone. So I cannot get a better resolution shot. Many people have asked for a shot of this..

EricGoedkoop · 10 February 2005, 06:53 PM

Neat-O! That just made my night.

Joe, do you have a date on the brochure this was taken from?

joegertler · 10 February 2005, 08:54 PM

I apologize for not including a lot of the details and history, with the initial post. I was on my way out for the evening and wanted to get the photo posted while I could still find it. The DLS in Berlin (Deutsche Luftfahrt Sammlung=German aviation collection) was one of the best aviation museums in the world-ever... I don't see a date. I believe it was bombed and destroyed in 1943. and this brochure appears to be around the beginning or just before the war. One of the most impressive photos shows the giant D.O.X. dwarfed behind a massive arched entry way that has a giant Adler (eagle) metal emblem over the center and two massive swastika emblems on the sides. I still get a kick out of seeing many of the aircraft with all kinds of large text painted on their nose or sides, instead of using signs or placards..More, tomorrow...The MVT in Berlin, now. has a great many original photos of most of the DLS exhibits in their files. They are awesome...

Volker_Nemsch · 10 February 2005, 09:47 PM

About 2 weeks ago I saw a film about the new expanding collection of the "Deutsches Technik Museum" in Berlin. The main story was about a man with an interesting job: he was searching all over the world for aircraft wrecks to be restored later in Berlin (during the film they showed the recovery of an almost perfect Heinkel He-111 and a Junkers Ju-88 out of a lake in Norway).

Now the good news: not all of the aircraft of the old DLS exhibition were lost during WW2. When Berlin was no longer a safe place from allied bombs (1943?) it was decided that the collection (or a big part of it) had to be transported to eastern Germany and occupied Poland. But this solution was not perfect - many aircraft were destroyed there in the fights of 1944/45.

After the war Poland soon looked for the remaining pieces and at least was successful enough to get about 24 of the former DLS aircraft as well as a lot of other items of the former German collection. They are now in an aviation museum in Krakow. Not all of them are perfect or complete, because the museum lacks the considerable sum of money to rebuild these machines.

During one scene of the film the "aircraft searcher" and the leader of the Krawow museum and they walked together through the shed/hangar with the remains of the DLS collection. It truely was a wonderful sight!

Maybe one of our friends from Poland has more information about that?

Here is a link to the museum:

http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl/estrona.html

Hope this helps a bit ...

Cigogne · 11 February 2005, 06:40 AM

Joe et al,

The Fokker Dr.I, although marked as MvR's,... is not MvR's. This aircraft was on loan from the Fokker company in Holland by personal direction of Anthony Fokker. It was used in the filming of D.III 88 and Pour le Merite. It was painted red, but, strangely had a horseshoe style Fokker Eindecker cowling. It was also displayed at an outdoor ceremony led by Göring in 1936 when JGI Richthofen was re-established.

MvR's aircraft that DID survive, but was on display at the Zeughaus which was elsewhere in Berlin, was none other than Dr.I 152/17. It was painted all red, w/ Balkenkreuze style markings, and they were original, not painted after the war. It was displayed on pylons alongside

Oswald Boelcke's Fokker D.III there. Both were destroyed in the bombing.

There was also the Goebel engined 528/17 which later was recovered and re-engined with a Clerget. I believe this one was wrecked and that the curator of the collection got in hot water over misusing museum property. They were supposed to build replicas but took the easy route using two of the three mentioned here. Obviously, 152/17 was not used in this capacity.

This is all discussed in WWI Aero and Imrie's Fokker Triplane book in detail.

EricGoedkoop · 11 February 2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cigogne

It was painted red, but, strangely had a horseshoe style Fokker Eindecker cowling.

Was that cowl original? I've seen a few pictures of Dr.Is with the horseshoe-style.

Cigogne · 11 February 2005, 07:04 AM

Some of the aircraft currently displayed there are:

Sopwith Camel: Fuselage and center section structure w/ engine and guns. Clerget engine fitted, but without cowling. Uncovered. Wheels are not original. No wings!

Halberstadt CL.II 15459/17: Fuselage only... no wings or cowling panels. Fuselage has speckled finish. Also, some of these have that writing on the fuselage that Joe Gertler was mentioning.

Aviatik C.III: Fuselage only, but in relatively good condition. Sitting on non-authentic wheels. No engine, wings, or cowling panels.

Albatros C.I 197/15: Fuselage only, w/ engine installed. No metal engine cowling panels. Sits on car type wheels.

Albatros B.II: Complete aircraft in Polish markings.

LVG B.IIa: Fuselage structure only, w/ landing gear struts and center section struts and tailplane fitted, uncovered.

Roland D.VIb: Fuselage w/ landing gear and proper wheels, and metal cowling panels and engine. Benz engine and propeller is fitted, but no spinner. This aircraft fuselage was in multiple pieces, but was expertly restored. This was chronicled in Windsock magazine in, I believe, 1993.

I had thought that also a DFW C.V fuselage also exists there, but have not seen any photos or evidence of that.

Cigogne · 11 February 2005, 07:10 AM

No, the cowling was not original and did not look like it fit properly. But, it was used and also flown that way during it's cinema and display career. There was a Fokker logo painted at top center face of cowling also. The aircraft also had the legend D-III 88 painted on the fuselage sides at one time for the filming of that movie. It was flown by former Jasta 11 pilot

Willi Gabriel for the in-flight sequences.

joegertler · 11 February 2005, 08:02 AM

Volker; I'm well aware of the true story that a number of aircraft were taken out of the DLS and were shipped off for safety to various storage sites, many in Poland. in hope of surviving the bombing raids. I remember that some were later discovered in the basement of an old dance hall, in a small town, etc. I believe it was Dr. Dr. Holger Steinle who took up this modern era search to find surviving DLS aircraft and he wrote a book about it called "Phoenix From the Ashes." (In German..)
He told me of many interesting conversations and interviews that he had in small towns, while tracking down various rumors of hidden aircraft. He is now the curator of aviation at MVT Berlin, and has been since it was first decided to rebuild a Berlin aviation museum and technical museum.. I am very familiar with Cigognes list of survivors in Poland. Germany-or MVT- has spent many years now, negotiating to get them back, to no avail, thus far. It is a sensitive issue. I believe MVT/DTM Berlin did find some other survivors they now have.. But I did not think it was anywhere near 24 total including the ones in Poland. I think the Polish museum also has a Curtiss Hawk biplane that I think was at DLS.

Cigogne · 11 February 2005, 04:14 PM

Joe Gertler,

The Curtiss Hawk fuselage remnant is that flown by Udet in the 1930s. Nowarra wrote a book called "Udet: Vom Fliegen Besessen" (Udet: Possessed by Flying) There are a couple of photos in there of the remnants, etc.