1 1/2-Strutter 1-seaters and 2-seaters in the same frontline unit?

Volker_Nemsch · 20 February 2005, 02:36 AM

Hello!

The Sopwith 1 1/2-Strutter was produced in several versions, including a single-seater bomber, a single-seater fighter and a 2-seater reconnaissance or fighter aircraft.

Were these versions ever mixed within one Squadron or Escadrille? For example was a flight of the bombers escorted by some 2-seaters of the same type?

Or had another Squadron the duty to provide an escort (of probably 1 1/2-Strutter 2-seaters) for a raid?

Thanks in advance for your help ...

MikeW · 20 February 2005, 03:08 AM

Hi Volker,

RNAS No.3 Wing based at Luxeil and Ochey used both the single seat Bomber and 2 seat Fighter variants in 1916, and early 1917.

As the Wing was a self contained strategic bombing group operating with the French, a very long distance away from any other Naval group, they had to provide their own escorts on the bombing raids.

Mike

gregoire · 24 February 2005, 02:01 AM

the french squadron Sop 123 (part of GB4 based at Ochey) was using a mixt of 1 and 2 seater (1B and 2B) both were used as bomber
the 17 august 17 a raid of 8 planes (I have different source one give 8 two seater and 1 one seater and other 7 two seater and 1 one seater) was lauched against Fribourg train station. During that rair the single seat plane was a bomber and not a fighter in fact the two seaters were the one doing air fighting and it is possible that the single seat soptwith was unarmed.
An heavy fight occured during the raid and sop123 claimed 2 victories for the losse of a single plane. the french victime was the plane of Adj Maneval (pilot Kia) and Cpl Gaillard (Gunner Kia?) the winner was Vfw Hilze (spelling ?) of Kest 4. If you have any imformation (the plane Hilze was flying) the lost and claim of Kest4 ...

By the way just to be sure a Kest was a unit in charge of air defence of a certain sector (in 1917)

Gregoire

Soderbaum · 25 February 2005, 09:08 AM

Hi Gregoire

The German pilot was Vfw Ludwig Hilz, who was a member of Kest 4b stationed at Freiburg.
I dont knew what aircraft they were flying during this period...

Gunnar

Volker_Nemsch · 25 February 2005, 09:28 AM

Thank you all for your help!

Gregoire and Mike, can you please tell me something about the unit markings and camouflage schemes of Sop 123 and RNAS No.3 Wing?

MikeW · 25 February 2005, 01:36 PM

Volker,

the 1.5 Strutters of No.3 Wing carried a square marking behind the fuselage cockade. The square would comprise a geometric pattern in red and white or blue and white. Each machine appearing to have a different pattern.

I can highly recommend a Bob Pearson feature on the OTF web site:

3 Wing article

Here you will find a couple of Bob's profiles and at least one photograph showing the marking that I've tried to describe. If you need any more let me know and I'll scan some shots for you.

Mike

gilles · 25 February 2005, 03:04 PM

Hello Volker,

From published photographies, I found 2 others french escadrilles operating both 1 and 2 seaters.

-N79/Spa79 (black wolf head) operated Sop.1b1 and b2 amongst nieuports and spads

-Sop111 (swan inside oval). A Sop.1b1 of this squadron is "famous" for landing in Netherlands in july 1917.

Planes were clear doped linen, the last one received a "field" night camo.

According to J.M.Bruce (datafile 80), french Sop squadrons generally received a mixture of 1b1 and 1b2. Spa79 and Sop111 are the only units I have 2 or more pictures and they show both types, so I must agree with Mr Bruce statement.

gilles

WarrenD · 25 February 2005, 04:14 PM

Gilles,
A question: What makes you say that they were clear doped linen, and not aluminum doped? To the best of my knowledge, and according to folks at the Memorial Flight in France, current thinking is that "most" of the Sopwith 1.5 Strutters were alu-doped. (But not all!) After I found this out, I went back in my datafiles and other books, and I can see where a great many/most could certainly have been silver.

Warren

gilles · 26 February 2005, 04:11 PM

Hello Warren,

You are absolutely right!!

I lazily rely on well known french and british references (no names). Not knowing much on these airplanes, I took for granted what was written or drawn and never ask myself "are they really clear doped?".
And now I see silver sopwith everywhere !

Thanks for the information Warren

Gilles