Plane Crash 1917

I recently bought a photo of a crashed aircraft which is marked "5/5/17 Poelkappelle".

On the reverse of the card (which was sent via FieldPost 359), the message reads: "This photo depicts an English aeroplane shot down near where I am stationed". The message was written on 30/6/17 by "Alfred Schinauer, II Kompany My. SS. Abteilung 29" ?

I would like to identify the aircraft and if possible the crew and any other circumstances surrounding the incident.

I have had some invaluable help for Regulus, but he has suggested that I place a request on this (excellent) Forum for a second opinion.

Many thanks.

[wolfenbill]

From the planform of the wings it appears that it may be a Be2C. I'm at work and don't have any reference books to verify. Will try to verify later.

[MikeW]

If Wolfenbill is correct in his identification, according to The Sky Their Battlefield by Trevor Henshaw, 10 sqn lost a BE2 to Anti-Aircraft fire at 7.15am. Capt. HC Lomer was killed, and Lt CT Bruce died later from his wounds.

Other aircraft lost on the 5th May, were 2 FE2ds, and a Spad 7.

Unfortunately, Henshaw does not give a location for the BE2.

Mike

[Soderbaum]

Hi

Probably the date on photograph is the date when the photo was taken and NOT the date when it was shot down because NO known German claims exists for this area within German lines this Day... :'(

The BE 2 of 10 sq was possible shot down by German Flak in the Givenchy-Festubert area(6 Army) within allied lines...

:
Gunnar

Thanks to you all for the help.

Soderbaum, that's interesting! I did wonder about the date, but the crash site looks very 'fresh' and there is a German soldier standing amongst the wreckage with a rifle thrown over his shoulder, apparently gaurding the site.

This would suggest that it was a recent crash. But perhaps it was a day or two before the date?

Thanks all!

[MikeW]

Hmm,

usually when there's a fresh crash, the photographs show hordes of soldiers in attendance, all beaming at the camera - inevitably one of them blocks the view of the serial number!

Gunnar is probably correct in his assumtion that the crash was several days earlier.


Mike

[Soderbaum]

Hi again

I made a double check in different German sources...

The Nachrichtenblatt states that Offst Walter Göttsch of Jasta 8 shot down his 12th Victory on 5 May 1917 at Schaep, a Vikkers...

However the weekly Kofl4 states that the same victory fell within German lines at Poelkapelle. It is described as a FE 2s..no time given...

If this is FE 2d A1942 from 20sq we have the answer...

Sorry for the earlier reply
:-[
Gunnar

Hi Gunnar,

Thanks for that. Can I just clarify?

Nachrichtenblatt is claiming that Göttsch's 12th victory was shot down at Schaep and another source, Kofl4, is saying his 12th victory was a different aircraft and that it was shot down at Poelkapelle.

What are the two sources? (I have no knowledge of German research sources).

Why might there be such a basic difference between the two sources?

Which is usually considered to be the most reliable?

Finally - thank you very much for taking the time to check this out. WW1 aviation is a whole new world for me! Thanks Gunnar.

If anyone thinks they might be able to ID the aircraft type better from a high definition scan, I would happily send them one.

Thanks everyone.

[Soderbaum]

Hi again

Yes, they are two descriptions of the same victory.

Nachrichtenblatt was a news magazin for the entire German Air Force(a high level)

The weekly Kofl reports were a similar for each Army(a lower level), in this case the Fourth Army...

In general the historic value increase as lower you can find reports....

I assume that Schaep and Poelkapelle were quite near each other(dont have the map at moment) but it was common that different locations(also a/c types) are given different sources...

I am rather convinced that the KTB(War Diary) of Jasta 8 has survived which probably can give further information, but I dont knew who have
it... :-/
Mostly the people who have such information are unwilling to share any information.. :'(

Kofl=Air commander of an Army

:
Gunnar

[Regulus]

Hi Gunnar,

Yes the same incident. Location was Schaep-Bailie.

Best from Regulus