425/17 question???

[drbubba43]

I know this has probably been gone over before, but I'm new here so here goes...

What was the color scheme of DR.1 425/17. All red seems unlikely from what I've read so far.

I've searched the threads and found lots of information, but much of it is confusing me because it refers to pictures no longer included in the thread.

I'm planning on building a model and not really expecting 100% accuracy but would like something resonably close to reality. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for purchasing alot of research material for the project.

Thanks ahead of time.

Ray

[Dan_San_Abbott]

drbubba43:
Fok.DR.I 425/17 left the factory in the standard Fokker Streaked Camouflage.
At Jasta 11 sometime in early to mid April 1918 it was completely over painted a dark red, (vermillion red with carbon black mixed in suspension.) It was not bright red. About as red as maroon. The rudder was painted white.
The machine was delivered with the matt black Iron Cross and went through two cross changes up to 21 April 1918. The last form was the balken(beam) cross with an approximate ratio of arm width to length of 4:1. The white border was about 150mm wide.
MvR apparently took over the machine around 20 April 1918 when he scored his last two victories.
Good luck on the model,
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[drbubba43]

Thanks for the quick reply and thanks a million for the clarification.

One more question...

When you say painted completely red I assume that means the the struts, underside and cowling, and that the stereotyped all red DR.1 would basically be accurate?

Ray

[StephenLawson]

Rudder was white.

[Drdad]

Between Jan. 1917 and April 21, 1917, 425/17 had three and perhaps four
disticnt paint schemes. It ( probably) was delivered from the factory with the streaky green/gray color on the top sufaces and light sky blue on the underside and struts. Have seen original strut piece at AWM and light blue is visible on the cross section under the red.
Later it was over painted red, over everything, including the factory works numbers and factory weight and centerline notations. The plane had Iron
Crosses in black at that time. In March the new Idfleig regs mandated change of the crosses to the 25cm straight cross. This was done on 425/17 by ( very poorly) overpainting the curved portion by a black straight fill-in.
These were two different kinds of paint and they did not adhere equally. This accounts for the peeled off result also seen in the AWM of authenticated fabric. Still later, new rules. 25cm crosses narrowed to 15cm crosses and Rudder painted white with the new narrow cross. Also large white cross and narrow inner cross painted on fusalage. BUT upper and lower wing crosses had not been changed to the narrow cross at the time it was shot down.

[drbubba43]

Thanks for the info everyone...

At this point I'm thinking of point it straight from the factory, before the red paint.

The more I think about it it seems more interesting that way than the all red.

Ray

[Dan_San_Abbott]

DRDad:
Fok.DR.I was accepted on 8 January 1918 by Bauaufsicht 13. It was probably disassembled loaded and blocked on a flat bed freight car in the next three or four days and transit for seven or eight days and unloaded and reassembled at Armee Flugpark 2 in two or three days and test flown. So it was about 20 January to 23 January when Jasta 11 was notified it was available. At this time it was in streaked olive brown camouflage on the top and side surfaces, and sky blue undersides with matt black Iron Crosses on white cross fields. From this date to 20 April 1918 nothing is known about the appearance of this machine. During the period from its arrival at Jasta 11, January 23 to 20 April 1918 this machine was in reserve. During this period the crosses were modified twice.
MvR from as far as we know last flew Fok.DR.I 477/17 on 11 April 1918. During the time frame of 18 March to 19 April 1918, did MvR ever fly Fok.DR.I 425/17 for any purpose whatsoever. during this period, MvR Flew Fok.DR.I 152/17,once, DR.I 127/17, twice, DR.I 161/17, once, Dr.I 525/17, once and DR.I 477/17 at least four times, maybe more. All during this period MvR NEVER flew Fok.DR.I 425/17 once. It surely can not be his backup machine, he never used it.
There is no evidence that he flew at all, from 12 to 19 April 1918. He may have been on leave. It is during this time, I think Fok.DR.I 425/17 was painted red. As far as can be determined he never flew Fok.DR.I 425/17 until 20 April 1918 when on that day he achieved his 79th and 80th victories. And again on the 21 april 1918 when he was shot down and killed.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[PeterL]

Ray, by far the best approach is to apply the factory finish and then apply a thin coat of red. It may seam like a waste but I did that with my model of 152/17 and it looks most effective.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

DRDad:
Could please provide you source on the cross widths of 25cm and 15cm.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Drdad]

The 25cm and 15cm measurements were first reported( to my knowledge)
in Alex Imrie's book , page 80, caption of photo 116. The photo attached was
taken by me at the AWM of 425/17 original fabric. The calipers are open to 5cm. The cross (exclusive of the tag-ends of the old Maltese cross) measures
25cm. This also corresponds to the other cross in their collection not pictured here. The crosses were obviously altered in a very crude and haphazard manner probably by an enlisted man who was entirely fed up with the rule changes, and no two measurements are the same exactly. The white
borders are even worse. I had to change my paint job when I returned to reflect these details. Also, please note the " bloody " red. There is no carbon black( engine soot) or castor oil overlying this crosses located outside the engine slipstream.Since vermillion is almost orange in its pure form, I believe the color was indeed " bloody red " as described by every first hand observer.
Don't doubt your fabric is authentic and genuine, but does have darker pigments from oil and exhaust. Have chosen to paint my machine the brighter color. Also have photo of color match to the original fabric if interested.
Best Regards Dan-San. Enjoy your commentary.