Pfalz D.XII - an improvement?

[Craig]

I have read not a little on this machine. Pilot reports are almost all near-scathing, from Jasta pilots to Allied test pilots after the war. Poor climb and insensitivity of the controls are common gripes. This would mean that it was lacking both in performance and maneuverablity, would it not?
Yet, it has been called "a more than adequate replacement for the 470-odd, rapidly aging" Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa still at the front in August 1918. (Was that PM Grosz?)

Performance figures I have seen would seem to indicate that it was neither faster nor a better climber than either of these older machines. Combine that with poor manueverability, and tell me again just how this plane was an improvement.
I'm really curious.

[Lyle]

Craig,
One of the reasons that the Pfalz D.XII was so hated was that it was never taken at its own value-it was always compared to the Fokker D.VII. Although you've probably read about Stark's account of the Pfalz pilot putting on a demonstration of the D.XII's abilities, still they weren't convinced of its qualities. What was the comparison? "from a thoroughbred to a draft horse" or something like that.
I don't have the performance figures for the Albatros D.Va or D.XII in front of me, but I'll bet that the D.XII was as you said, no faster than the older plane. Certainly it wasn't as weak as the Albatros sesquiplane arrangement, in fact it was based on the Spad VII's wingplan. If a pilot had NEVER experienced the Fok. D.VII, then it's possible that he would have liked the Pfalz.
Another story I've heard was that the D.XII was also engined with the 185 BMW, but if it got pranged up then the engine would be confiscated for use in D.VIIs. Is that true? Maybe Rudolf Stark was the source for that one as well.
Heck, I don't know. I just like the plane, and would love to see a decent 1/48 scale kit of it someday. (I have two Blue Max versions sitting on the shelf...I'm not tempted to build them.)
I guess it's strong point was that it was strong.
Lyle

A.R. Weyl's book "Fokker: The Creative Years" suggests that the Pfalz was chosen for production because it was vocally favored by Ernst Udet, and nobody else at the Second Fighter Competition wanted to contradict him. Weyl implies that Udet's refusal to fly the Pfalz in combat is some evidence of bribery, or at least impaired judgment due to friendship. The Pfalz is described in the same book as having flight characteristics quite similar to the SPAD XIII, so it was not a bad airplane by any means, just not the equal of a BMW powered Fokker DVII.

We must remember also that productive capacity was not interchangeable at the various factories. The Pfalz factory was staffed by plywood craftsmen, not welders. The DXII was more suitable for production at that factory than the Fokker DVII. If a second inline type was required as a backup, the DXII was as rational a choice as any other competitor of the Fokker DVII. Remember that the Roland DVI was also on order as another wooden alternative to the Fokker, and the DXII complemented the Roland fairly well. With BMW engines all three really would have been very good airplanes, but the Fokkers received these engines rather than the plywood types.

[Craig]

Lyle;
Don't be afraid of those Blue Max kits! I built their D.XII, and found it to be pretty straightforward, though not so much as the Eduard kits.

sfabert;
Makes sense, I guess. Peter Grosz, in the corresponding Windsock Datafiles, seemed almost an apologist for the D.XII - as if the BMW would've done anything to cure the machine's sluggish maneuverability. On the other hand, he denigrates the Roland D.VI, after having recorded that pilots found it to be "much more maneuverable" than the Albatros and Pfalz D.IIIa. The D.VIb, with a 200 hp Benz, had significantly better performance than a Pfalz D.XII.

I guess that Pfalz still has its P.R. team in the field!

Dear Craig,
"The sight of them does not inspire much confidence. The fuselage and controls are the usual kinds, the wings are somewhat compacter, with a multitude of bracing wires [the DXII had two bays per wing, and was a rigger's nightmare--C.L.]. The entire contrivance looks just like a harp. We are spoiled for such machines after becoming accustomed to the unbraced Fokker wings. The ground crews grumbled because of the trouble all that bracing was going to cause and cursed the extra work. Each of us climbed into the new fighters with prejudice and immediately began looking for as many faults as possible. No one wanted to fly these Pfalzs, except under duress and made as much of a stink as they could about practicing with them."

Thus spake Rudolf Stark, concerning the Pfalz DXII replacements sent to his Jasta, then comprised of Fokker D.7s, in September of 1918. I found the quote in the October, 1968 issue of AIR CLASSICS: "Fokker's Flying Coffin", by Nick Stasinos (and adding the breathless prose "Was A Deathtrap... For The Enemy"). Then follows this paragraph (Stasinos doesn't make it clear if these are his own words or a paraphrasing of Stark's):

'Later, their pilots got on very well with the Pfalz. They flew decently and could always keep pace with the Fokkers. In fact, they dived even faster, but they were ham-fisted and heavy in a turn. If the Fokker was a bloodstock racehorse, the Pfalz was a clumsy, but obedient cart animal.'

Well, alles gut zu ende gut!
HuB,
Captain Lewis

[Craig]

Captain,
Thanks for the Stark quote. I've seen part of it before, but not the bit about the harp. Sure would like to get hold of an English translation of Stark's book!
It's that "hamfisted and clumsy" bit that makes me think it wasn't such a good fighter, though. Who'd want THAT, when dealing with a Camel or an SE5a?

[Cigogne]

They were influenced by the SPAD XIII and that school of thought. Strong thin aerofoil section with bracing all over the place.

Also, engine condition and other factors, like dampness and weather also affected performance. I always like to read Frank Tallman's assessment when he said it would run away from everything except the SPAD in his collection. He reckoned it would do 120 mph. But, again, he was flying in Sunny California with good quality fuel, etc. Not in shortage bound wartime Germany in WWI.

Cigogne

[Romani]

From Angelucci and Matricardi, "Aircraft of the World" Rand McNally Press, 1979

These guys did their research, it's a pity that the entry for each airplane is so brief. But many of the affirmations they make I've seen confirmed by others, so I reckon it's a credible source.


On the Pfalz DXII it says:

"Like many other excellent German aircraft of the last year of the war, the DXII resented from the competition of the Fokker DVII.

The direct confrontation between the former originated a great distrust among the ground crews and the pilots about the Pfalz fighters.

Actually, the plane, though not having the same performance as the DVII ( Translator note: most of the time"performance" refers to the engine, altitude and climbing qualities), was equally a very resistant aircraft, spedy, maneuverable and able to face the adversaries.

Before the armistice, some variants of the DXII appeared. Among thse, the DXV, tested in the last days of the war, that had a 185 CV BMW IIIa"


Engine was a Mercedes DIIIa of 180 CV
Maximum speed: 180 kph at sea level


My guess would be that the Fokker DVII was superior to all Allied aircraft, and that the Pfalz DXII was on even terms with them, depending of how you played on the strengths of the plane. You wouldn't try to get into a dogfight with this one, and I have heard that by this time, German pilots were using dive and zoom climb tactics.

Not as good as the Fokker, but probably a bit better than the Albatros DV and the Pfalz DIII.

[Romani]

Found this at a website

http://www.pilots-n-planes-ww1.com/Central...12/Pfla-D12.htm

Rudolph Stark, who commanded the Bavarian Jagdstaffel 35, which together with Jastas 23, 32 and 34 formed the Bavarian Jagdgeschwader IV commanded by Edouard von Schleich, has reported that when Pfalz D.XIIs were received by his unit early in September 1918, to replace the war-weary Albatros D.Vas and Pfalz D.IIIs, they were initially looked upon by the pilots with dismay. He nevertheless goes on to say that when the pilots had thoroughly familiarized themselves with the type-those that survived those hectic days long enough to do so, that is-were able to give a good account of themselves and to cope with the Camels, S.E.s and Dolphins of the British without undue disadvantage.

Undoubtedly the Pfalz D.XII's worst enemy was the eulogistic propaganda that had surrounded the earlier Fokker D VII, coupled with its own unannounced, almost mysterious, debut. While the Fokker product had been lauded to the skies, the Pfalz was a completely unknown quantity to pilots, and therefore at an immediate disadvantage. There is no doubt it was a good machine: well designed and carefully constructed. If the war had lasted longer it would most likely have emerged from the shadow of the Fokker D.VII to stand upon its own merits.

The Pfalz D.XII was supplied to Jastas 23, 32, 34, 35, 64, 65, 66, 77, 78 and 81, as well as to home-defense fighter units. By October 1918. there were 180 Pfalz D.XIIs in service on the Western Front.


For the full article read


http://www.pilots-n-planes-ww1.com/Central...12/Pfla-D12.htm

Hola, Romani,

This is just to split hairs, but the replacements of Sept. 1918, concerning Stark's Jasta, were not for the Albatros D.Va or Pfalz D.IIIa, which had already been replaced months earlier by the Fokker D.VII; the September replacements that Stark cites were Pfalz D.XIIs for damaged or lost Fokker D.VIIs.

Therefore, would it be correct to assume that the new Pfalz was a 'worthy' replacement for the legendary Fokker; or was it simply a question of production and what was available?

Or could it possibly have been the attitude that the Bavarians really weren't the same class as the German Jastas (didn't Schleich have his own 'political' difficulties because he wasn't Prüssen?), and therefore didn't rate the best quality aircraft?

Ich habe wirklich keine anung; wir müssen noch andenken...

HuB,
Hauptmann Ludwig