wing fixed MG

[Jan]

Hello,

in an article that I recently read, it was mentioned, that MvR once used a wing fixed MG in his first flights as pilot of a two seater.(early Albatros B-or C-Type) It is claimed, that he himself wished to have it fixed on the wing. Does somebody know if this is correct? Or does anyone have more information on that. (Type of plane/MG) Thank you.
Greetings Jan

[TomVrille]

Quoting from The Red Air Fighter, in MvR's own words (translated):

"I had had built into my machine a machine-gun, which I had arranged very much in the way in which it is done in the Nieuport machines. I was very proud of my idea. People laughed at the way I had fitted it up because the whole thing looked very primitive. Of course I swore by my new arrangement."

So, it appears that the credit for the installation does go to MvR himself. Primitive or not, he did get an unconfirmed Nieuport with the design.

[Jan]

Thanks a lot, that helped me very much. Is it known, what aircraft type he "modified" that way?

[Volker_Nemsch]

Do you only think about a wing mounted MG on the upper wing ("Nieuport style") or simply a MG for the pilot? Here are two interesting photos of the latter type ...

[Jan]

Hello,
the photos are very interesting, never seen them before. Especially the first one looks strange. The MG´s fired straight forward, didn´t they? Do you know, if it was used more than once?
MvR seems to have fixed it in Nieuport style, on the upper wing. Must have been an aircraft that had been built before the interruption principle was invented. Perhaps Alb. B.II or C.I...

[Tripehound]

Got a book called " Manfred Von Richthofen: The Man and the Aircraft He Flew" by David Baker. It says:

"Undeterred, and spoiling for a fight, Manfred had a gun fitted to the upper wing above the forward cockpit of his Albatros biplane, angled upward so that he could fire above the propeller arc. This also enabled him to control the fight from the front!"

On a slightly different subject, a book on British WW1 fighters by J. M. Bruce has this "tidbit" on the Bristol scout:

"Armament varied considerably, especially on the R.N.A.S. Bristols, some of which had fixed Lewis guns firing straight ahead without synchronizing gear of any kind. Pierced airscrews that were still usable were plugged and taped."

Meaning that a propeller hit with a .30 round would go into millions of pieces ?
And that a spinning prop in a mil. would disturub the balance of the engine ?

[Romani]

Meaning that a propeller hit with a .30 round would go into millions of pieces ?

That's not the case. I read an account about Sholto Douglas (of later WWII Battle of Britain fame) flying Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutters in ground attack missions in the battle of Vimy Ridge in 1917. It mentions that sometimes the interrupter gear would fail and they would fire the Vickers MG anyway, resulting in pierced and chipped propellers in returning aircraft

Apparently due to propeller construction method, that seems to have been done in all cases the laminated way, (instead of being carved out of a solid block of wood), the occasional bullet would just punch a neat hole through the propeller without compromising structural integrity.

It must have been a calculated risk and not as foolhardy as it seems, since many pilots did it and came back to base to tell the tale.


In the case of those Bristols of the RNAS, the Lewis gun must have been wing mounted and (possibly) at an slight angle to clear barely the prop disc, its advantages justifying the occasional stray bullet hitting the prop

It seems that a propeller had more to fear from hitting a rock (or the ground) in the airfield than from bullets. A bullet would simply punch a neat hole through the layered strips of wood, a impact against a rock or the ground might cause longitudinal cracks, that's my understanding from reading a couple accident reports. Maybe that was in some British propellers you see them with metal guards riveted over the tips and leading edges, but that's just my theory. I hope somebody can confirm this.
this forum)



Hope this helps.

[R Pope]

The metal cladding on prop tips was (and is) for protection against airborne particles. No amount of covering will prevent catastrophe on contact with mother earth, even a metal prop won't live through that. I've read many accounts of pilots firing through the prop with little or no damage, but the odd time the prop just kinda disappeared! The luck of the draw, I guess. I used to have pictures of a pre-Garros gun installation, where you could see a hole in the one blade.

[Cigogne]

In an article about Erwin Böhme that appeared a few years ago in Over The Front, there is a series of photos taken during the Verdun era and on the Eastern Front during his time there. There is one of an Albatros C.I that has an overwing mounted gun mounted above the center section.