Who can identify this ?

Breguet · 31 July 2002, 01:26 AM

I presume this is slightly pre our era - but maybe not Can anyone identify it ?

Rod_Filan · 31 July 2002, 12:39 PM

Yes, pre "our era" as you call it. Its a Moisant Biplane. The first all-metal aeroplane - designed and built by John B. Moisant in 1909. Built of aluminium and Gnome rotary powered. Here's the other view.
http://204.83.160.230/archive/images9/Mois...mPlane_jpl.jpgI see it more as a monoplane yet it does have a bit of a lower plane and I have only seen it annotated as biplane. I'd have to check my notes but I believe it was constructed in the USA after Moisant returned from England after his Paris-London flight(s).

VBR
Rod

Rod_Filan · 31 July 2002, 12:50 PM

hmmmm... I seem to have gotten the years inverted. Moisant won the Daily Mail Trophy 6 Sep 1910 ! That would mean he built the Moisant biplane the year before; which makes sense considering he died 31 Dec 1910.

VBR
Rod

jempie · 1 August 2002, 05:42 AM

Hello!

The plane was built at PARIS! Very probably at Issy-les-Moulineaux airfield 1909.At the time Moissant was most of his time spending with flying in France.
The wingspan was only 5,5 meters! The total wingsurface of all wings together had a surface of 22 m²! The lenght of the plane was 8,5 meters
Weight without pilot 250 kg.
The construction of the plane (carcas) was of steel, while the wings were of aluminium.

VBR
JPL/Jempie

1 August 2002, 06:49 AM

Its a French plane called The Concord

jempie · 2 August 2002, 03:00 AM

Breguet!
Think you found your photo on the Ralph Cooper web site : The Early Birds of Aviation...
Notice , Moisant by times spelled Moissant too...
Further Ralph annotated the photo with all alu-plane
must be for sure "all metal plane"!
It's so seen I haven't the technical knowledge to create an own web site, I submitted photos from my collection on several web sites.

But to those interested, Ralphs web site on
Early Aviators (pre-WWI) is a fine one.In time there will be added more photos.
Can be visited on :
http://www.rcooper.0catch.com/emoisjoh.htmIf interested into other pre WWI plane photos, a lot are submitted on Buff's Aviation Website, see:
http://home.planetinternet.be/~gvanroy1/index2.htm

Jempie/JP Lauwers.

Rod_Filan · 2 August 2002, 09:50 PM

Buff's pioneer aircraft: http://home.planetinternet.be/~gvanroy1/ar-h-p.htm to get there directly.

A little difficult to locate thru the navigation menu.

J-P... what did J. Moisant do before he was at Reims 1909 ? I'm also unclear on when Moisant's International Aviators Ltd. was started. I thought Moisant's was at Dominguez in Jan 1910 and had been exhibiting in 1909. When did Alfred and John form the travelling airshow?

VBR
Rod

jempie · 3 August 2002, 08:53 AM

Rod!
Difficult to answer! I checked the Yearbook 1910 of the French aéro-Club...in there no trace of Moisant!
Don't know if on the FAI website he is to find under aviators? What's on Ralph Coopers website is to find is all I know!
A vulgarisating bookwork Dictionaire Illustré de L'Aviation mentions only : American aviator of the first hours! espcicially known to have made as first the flight Paris-London with a biplane Farman (meanwhile I discovered it was a Blériot at hand of the original photos published into L'Illustration 1910!) The flight took 22 days...well he got propellor damages! Needed to get a new one from France while he was landed somewhere in England!
He was also there,together, with Geo Chavez to fly over the Alps September 1910!He returned to the USA and grounded there the Show Moissant International ltd. One of the aviators there was his friend Roland Garros! He was killed during an exhibition flight at New Olreans 1910/12/31...He grounded a "factory" and a flying school at Mineola (Long Island) That's all what's said in here!
The rest I have from other contemporary articles and books pre-WWI!
So his brother took over the duties for the flying school and also his sister Mathilde Moisant became there a female aviator!About her is a lot known!

JPL/JEMPIE

jempie · 3 August 2002, 09:07 AM

Rod!
He was indeed also at Los Angeles-Domininguez flying! That flight is special mentioned into L'Illustration on that subject! For more Paulhan got there the Cup from the City of San Diègo by the lord Mayor there (I have the photo!)
Than they went to Belmont Parc NY I believe!
I have articles on both events at hand with a number names of those who participated.
They had to fly to the Liberty statue and surround it for more!
But on 1909 ? and Before? I do not have him found in these years! Only he designed and constructed that "all metal plane"! On a commemorating plate on Ralph Coopers website is it mentioned.
First to have built an all metal plane 1909!
One of the photos I found into a Belgian magazine from 1909! The other into a German bookwork published 1911 and dealing into all kind of aeronautic history. It's puzzle work! believe me!

JPL/Jempie

Might be you find some more informations on the Licoln Beachey website by carroll gray
The link to this website is also to find on Ralph Cooper's one! On there Los Angeles & Belmont park
avaiton conests is to find and normally a list with data on early aviators!